4 ms·

Also killing birds and bats though....

cavanasm 9y ago
My dad worked as a general counsel for a power company for a long time, and he told me they basically had a budget for how much they'd pay in violations of the Endangered Species Act related to bird deaths around their wind turbines.
- IAmEveryone 9y ago
  You dad (or, more likely: you) is full of shit. Penalties don’t work like a tax on misbehavior. If you are constantly being fined, you would face the loss of your license to operate.
  - cavanasm 9y ago
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/duke-energy-bird-fine_n_4326596.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/duke-energy-bird-f... There was foreknowledge on the company's side that it would be an issue, but not expedience in trying to resolve it (hence the notion of it being budgeted as a potential expense). It still took years for anything to happen over the issue. My dad wasn't directly involved in this case (they have many many lawyers), but it was something he was aware of enough to mention at the dinner table, especially after it started getting press coverage. Sort of an "Ugh, the company is in trouble again, why can't they just do the right thing" type of gripe.
dredmorbius 9y ago
An issue that seems very suspiciously motivated and decontextualised. One such source I've seen comes from "ABC": First: ABC take funding from an oil company, Conoco-Philips. That's not an indictment of itself, but it does smell funny. They're also touted by the Heritage Institute, a notorious right-wingnut / Libertarian disinformation mill. Source: SourceWatch: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Bird_Conservancy http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Bird_Conservan... ABC claims that as of 2012 there are 573,000 birds killed from U.S. wind power installations. That compares against: * 100-120 million birds killed by hunters. * 174-175 million birds killed by transmission lines. * 365-988 million birds killed by buildings and windows * 0.2 - 3.7 billion (with a 'b') birds killed by domestic and feral cats. This seems exceedingly agenda-driven. Earlier: https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/298s4kv2Ud2 https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/298s4kv2...
Tharkun 9y ago
How much wildlife (or human life...) is killed or otherwise threatened by fossil fuels? I suspect a single oil tanker spill kills more animals than any wind farm.
- tomcam 9y ago
  Citation?
  - loco5niner 9y ago
    No claim was made. No need for a citation.
jacquesm 9y ago
So do buildings.
rsynnott 9y ago
If you’re concerned about this, you should be a lot more worried about cats, tall buildings, cars, electric transmission lines, and farming, all of which kill orders of magnitude more birds.

My dad worked as a general counsel for a power company for a long time, and he told me they basically had a budget for how much they'd pay in violations of the Endangered Species Act related to bird deaths around their wind turbines.

IAmEveryone 9y ago
You dad (or, more likely: you) is full of shit. Penalties don’t work like a tax on misbehavior. If you are constantly being fined, you would face the loss of your license to operate.
- cavanasm 9y ago
  https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/duke-energy-bird-fine_n_4326596.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/duke-energy-bird-f... There was foreknowledge on the company's side that it would be an issue, but not expedience in trying to resolve it (hence the notion of it being budgeted as a potential expense). It still took years for anything to happen over the issue. My dad wasn't directly involved in this case (they have many many lawyers), but it was something he was aware of enough to mention at the dinner table, especially after it started getting press coverage. Sort of an "Ugh, the company is in trouble again, why can't they just do the right thing" type of gripe.

dredmorbius 9y ago

An issue that seems very suspiciously motivated and decontextualised. One such source I've seen comes from "ABC": First: ABC take funding from an oil company, Conoco-Philips. That's not an indictment of itself, but it does smell funny. They're also touted by the Heritage Institute, a notorious right-wingnut / Libertarian disinformation mill. Source: SourceWatch: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Bird_Conservancy http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Bird_Conservan... ABC claims that as of 2012 there are 573,000 birds killed from U.S. wind power installations. That compares against: * 100-120 million birds killed by hunters. * 174-175 million birds killed by transmission lines. * 365-988 million birds killed by buildings and windows * 0.2 - 3.7 billion (with a 'b') birds killed by domestic and feral cats. This seems exceedingly agenda-driven. Earlier: https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/298s4kv2Ud2 https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/298s4kv2...

Tharkun 9y ago

How much wildlife (or human life...) is killed or otherwise threatened by fossil fuels? I suspect a single oil tanker spill kills more animals than any wind farm.

tomcam 9y ago
Citation?
- loco5niner 9y ago
  No claim was made. No need for a citation.

jacquesm 9y ago

So do buildings.

rsynnott 9y ago

If you’re concerned about this, you should be a lot more worried about cats, tall buildings, cars, electric transmission lines, and farming, all of which kill orders of magnitude more birds.