5 ms·

I don't understand the issue with paying to choose your seat on the budget airlines. My wife and I recently flew Spirit to and Southwest from our destination in

I don't understand the issue with paying to choose your seat on the budget airlines. My wife and I recently flew Spirit to and Southwest from our destination in the US. Even after adding bags and seat (we even paid for their big front seats) it was still cheaper than Southwest.

tomrod 8y ago
Economically, no issue. They are price discriminating to their hearts content and letting people get what they want. Psychologically, it feels like being taken advantage of. No brand loyalty or other customer value to be had. Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along.
- babuskov 8y ago
  I'm actually very loyal to Ryanair because I know I can book late and still get any seat I want (because most people never book their seats). The only issue I have with RA is that some airports they use are far outside the cities they "cover", so you sometimes need an hour or more (by a train or bus) to get into the actual city.
- mseebach 8y ago
  > Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along. I would expect Ryanair to be fine with that. Their business model is that a very large subset of passengers select their flights based on price, and price alone, that price is the only customer value that matters. They are explicitly not investing in fluffy brand loyalty. I fly a lot on expensive, flexible tickets on legacy carriers, and have status, so I'm reasonably "loyal", and have fast track and lounge access to show for it, but the BS airlines come up with that is supposed to make non-status holders in economy "feel the brand" (despite the objectively sad quality of the hard product) triggers my gag reflex.
  - tomrod 8y ago
    I agree completely.
nathcun 8y ago
I'm the same. I feel like they're going to make this money some way, at least this way I have an option in paying it.
dazc 8y ago
From my experience, people in the UK see the charge for a designated seat as scam, they don't understand the budget flight business model. Ryanair (not a UK company btw) have been a pioneer in this area with aggressive discounting of basic level airfares but with lots of 'upgrade' options.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  > they don't understand the budget flight business model. Does letting you choose your seat increase their costs? If not, then I can see why people see it as a scam.
  - nathcun 8y ago
    they may be offsetting a cost elsewhere by doing this. If they wanted to make the same money but allow people to choose their seats they could raise ticket prices for everybody (which wouldn't be fair on those who really don't care about their seat allocation).
    - mehrdadn 8y ago
      Yeah I get what they're doing (and I'm sure other people do too); I'm just saying I see why people feel it's a rip-off nonetheless.
  - rusk 8y ago
    No but it's a possible source of additional revenue.
  - dazc 8y ago
    The cheapest price tickets are often subsidized by the extra charges that some people are willing to pay. I don't see this as a scam.
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    You have the choice between a cheaper (no seat-choosing) flight and a more expensive (seat-choosing) flight. If everyone could choose the price would be somewhere in between and at least some people would be worse off (those who really didn’t care about choosing and would be paying more now and those who would be paying less to choose but now would have less choices).
maccard 8y ago
My issue with it is that it makes it difficult to compare the cost of a flight with a competitor. If i compare a BA flight with a United flight, I know that I'm going to get _roughly_ the same service. With a Ryanair vs BA comparison, I'm not actually sure what the difference is going to be, or how much it will cost me to make them equal.
- koolba 8y ago
  > If i compare a BA flight with a United flight ... Make sure you add $20/seat though. A few months back United switched to "Basic Economy" as their lowest option which again does not include carry-on bags (not just checked bags) or picking a seat. For an apples-to-apples you need to upgrade to at least regular economy to start comparing flights with United.
  - gsnedders 8y ago
    BA short-haul's base fares are hand-luggage only and assigned seat only; I believe they're going to expand this to some of their ex-Gatwick long-haul flights (in competition with Norwegian).
- pif 8y ago
  Exactly the same issue I have with Ikea. I can never find the price of the exposed combination, e.g. for a wardrobe: I don't care what a door or a shelf cost: I need the price of the ensemble in order to compare with competition, and I expect this total price to be exposed in bold! With no easy comparison, no way I'll buy here!
xab9 8y ago
The issue is that it's entirely possible to pay more for the seats than for the flight itself. I myself find this an issue, but ymmv.
nukeop 8y ago
This is because you used to be able to sit wherever you liked once you boarded the plane, and only premium passengers could get a reserved place. Now they are reserving you a bad place beforehand, so you can't just sit wherever you like, and if you want to change that, you need to pay. What used to be free, is now being charged for, and there is little reason to do so other than "because they can" because it doesn't raise the operating costs.
- rocqua 8y ago
  If a company raises prices 'because they can' and people keep paying, that is just how markets work. In some sense, this leads to a better allocation of seats, as it allows those who desire some seats to pay for them, whilst those who have to preference get a cheaper flight. Now, people who used to be fine with the dice-roll of not paying get a worse experience. But this comes with the upside of those who really wanting the seats having a better chance.
  - nukeop 8y ago
    People keep paying because there's no other choice on certain routes, short of driving or taking a bus. This isn't an upgrade or anything, people who wanted to pay to reserve seats could already do so. You could have also not paid, and picked whatever was available, switch with your neighbors, and so on. Obviously, since Ryan Air figured out that they can extract some extra bucks out of that, you're now assigned a place and can no longer just pick whatever is available once you board. This is a standard rent-seeking behavior with no advantage for the customers.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      I think there's a clear advantage: boarding is faster, as there's a lot less competition (or even argument) over the nicer seats. Ryanair are fairly clear about what you must pay for when booking, and there are plenty of routes where they have competition from EasyJet, Norwegian etc.
    - icebraining 8y ago
rusk 8y ago
Southwest is an interesting comparison actually. Aren't they a budget airline that prides themselves on being friendly as well?
- mseebach 8y ago
  EasyJet and especially Norwegian are "premium Ryanair" products. They are rarely as cheap as Ryanair, but still cheaper than legacy. The hard product is pretty comparable, but the whole experience feels a bit more toned down and less hysterical (and a lot less yellow).
- ryan-c 8y ago
  Southwest (I fly with them a lot) isn't a "budget" airline in the sense that Allegiant or Spirit are. They don't do assigned seating at all - you pick an available seat when you board. Boarding position is generally assigned based on when you check in, though you can pay extra to board earlier. They include two checked bags per person and standard carry-on allowances in the price of the ticket. No "gotcha" fees. One similarity is that there are a lot of larger airports that they don't service, instead using other nearby airports. They're inexpensive if you book well in advance, but last minute fares can be very expensive.

tomrod 8y ago

Economically, no issue. They are price discriminating to their hearts content and letting people get what they want. Psychologically, it feels like being taken advantage of. No brand loyalty or other customer value to be had. Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along.

babuskov 8y ago
I'm actually very loyal to Ryanair because I know I can book late and still get any seat I want (because most people never book their seats). The only issue I have with RA is that some airports they use are far outside the cities they "cover", so you sometimes need an hour or more (by a train or bus) to get into the actual city.
mseebach 8y ago
> Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along. I would expect Ryanair to be fine with that. Their business model is that a very large subset of passengers select their flights based on price, and price alone, that price is the only customer value that matters. They are explicitly not investing in fluffy brand loyalty. I fly a lot on expensive, flexible tickets on legacy carriers, and have status, so I'm reasonably "loyal", and have fast track and lounge access to show for it, but the BS airlines come up with that is supposed to make non-status holders in economy "feel the brand" (despite the objectively sad quality of the hard product) triggers my gag reflex.
- tomrod 8y ago
  I agree completely.

nathcun 8y ago

I'm the same. I feel like they're going to make this money some way, at least this way I have an option in paying it.

dazc 8y ago

From my experience, people in the UK see the charge for a designated seat as scam, they don't understand the budget flight business model. Ryanair (not a UK company btw) have been a pioneer in this area with aggressive discounting of basic level airfares but with lots of 'upgrade' options.

mehrdadn 8y ago
> they don't understand the budget flight business model. Does letting you choose your seat increase their costs? If not, then I can see why people see it as a scam.
- nathcun 8y ago
  they may be offsetting a cost elsewhere by doing this. If they wanted to make the same money but allow people to choose their seats they could raise ticket prices for everybody (which wouldn't be fair on those who really don't care about their seat allocation).
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    Yeah I get what they're doing (and I'm sure other people do too); I'm just saying I see why people feel it's a rip-off nonetheless.
- rusk 8y ago
  No but it's a possible source of additional revenue.
- dazc 8y ago
  The cheapest price tickets are often subsidized by the extra charges that some people are willing to pay. I don't see this as a scam.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  You have the choice between a cheaper (no seat-choosing) flight and a more expensive (seat-choosing) flight. If everyone could choose the price would be somewhere in between and at least some people would be worse off (those who really didn’t care about choosing and would be paying more now and those who would be paying less to choose but now would have less choices).

maccard 8y ago

My issue with it is that it makes it difficult to compare the cost of a flight with a competitor. If i compare a BA flight with a United flight, I know that I'm going to get _roughly_ the same service. With a Ryanair vs BA comparison, I'm not actually sure what the difference is going to be, or how much it will cost me to make them equal.

koolba 8y ago
> If i compare a BA flight with a United flight ... Make sure you add $20/seat though. A few months back United switched to "Basic Economy" as their lowest option which again does not include carry-on bags (not just checked bags) or picking a seat. For an apples-to-apples you need to upgrade to at least regular economy to start comparing flights with United.
- gsnedders 8y ago
  BA short-haul's base fares are hand-luggage only and assigned seat only; I believe they're going to expand this to some of their ex-Gatwick long-haul flights (in competition with Norwegian).
pif 8y ago
Exactly the same issue I have with Ikea. I can never find the price of the exposed combination, e.g. for a wardrobe: I don't care what a door or a shelf cost: I need the price of the ensemble in order to compare with competition, and I expect this total price to be exposed in bold! With no easy comparison, no way I'll buy here!

xab9 8y ago

The issue is that it's entirely possible to pay more for the seats than for the flight itself. I myself find this an issue, but ymmv.

nukeop 8y ago

This is because you used to be able to sit wherever you liked once you boarded the plane, and only premium passengers could get a reserved place. Now they are reserving you a bad place beforehand, so you can't just sit wherever you like, and if you want to change that, you need to pay. What used to be free, is now being charged for, and there is little reason to do so other than "because they can" because it doesn't raise the operating costs.

rocqua 8y ago
If a company raises prices 'because they can' and people keep paying, that is just how markets work. In some sense, this leads to a better allocation of seats, as it allows those who desire some seats to pay for them, whilst those who have to preference get a cheaper flight. Now, people who used to be fine with the dice-roll of not paying get a worse experience. But this comes with the upside of those who really wanting the seats having a better chance.
- nukeop 8y ago
  People keep paying because there's no other choice on certain routes, short of driving or taking a bus. This isn't an upgrade or anything, people who wanted to pay to reserve seats could already do so. You could have also not paid, and picked whatever was available, switch with your neighbors, and so on. Obviously, since Ryan Air figured out that they can extract some extra bucks out of that, you're now assigned a place and can no longer just pick whatever is available once you board. This is a standard rent-seeking behavior with no advantage for the customers.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    I think there's a clear advantage: boarding is faster, as there's a lot less competition (or even argument) over the nicer seats. Ryanair are fairly clear about what you must pay for when booking, and there are plenty of routes where they have competition from EasyJet, Norwegian etc.
  - icebraining 8y ago

rusk 8y ago

Southwest is an interesting comparison actually. Aren't they a budget airline that prides themselves on being friendly as well?

mseebach 8y ago
EasyJet and especially Norwegian are "premium Ryanair" products. They are rarely as cheap as Ryanair, but still cheaper than legacy. The hard product is pretty comparable, but the whole experience feels a bit more toned down and less hysterical (and a lot less yellow).
ryan-c 8y ago
Southwest (I fly with them a lot) isn't a "budget" airline in the sense that Allegiant or Spirit are. They don't do assigned seating at all - you pick an available seat when you board. Boarding position is generally assigned based on when you check in, though you can pay extra to board earlier. They include two checked bags per person and standard carry-on allowances in the price of the ticket. No "gotcha" fees. One similarity is that there are a lot of larger airports that they don't service, instead using other nearby airports. They're inexpensive if you book well in advance, but last minute fares can be very expensive.