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How to avoid getting stuck with the middle seat on a Ryanair flight
- KozmoNau7 8y agoStep 1: Don't fly on Ryanair. Just don't.
- gargravarr 8y ago>How to avoid getting the middle seat on Ryanair flights Fly BA instead.
- lumisota 8y agoBA has a similar seating policy with its cheapest fares (pay to reserve, or have one allocated at random), and has lower seat pitch than Ryanair.
- isostatic 8y agoYes, BA have gone downhill dramatically in the last few years -- I used to be a top level frequent flyer with them I've got a flight coming up next week with them to Nairobi, on a tired old 747, which I'm not looking forward to. In years past I'd paid a fortune for such a flight, now unless BA is at least £400 return cheaper than someone like Lufthansa, I won't fly them. I did fly BA in January (again to Nairobi), was amazed how empty the plane was.
- rusk 8y agoI often suspect with BA, that they actually purposefully make the economy experience worse than it economically needs to be, so that the difference with the more expensive tiers can be exaggerated. Often a fairly dismal experience, but their in-flight food is usually very good.
- isostatic 8y agoI don't fly further back than premium economy, which is how economy should be. Nothing as extravagant as a bed (although I'm in the process of upgrading next week's flight with miles) However even up front their experience is lacklusture. I'd rather fly business on Qatar than First on BA, and certainly rather business on Qatar than business on BA. It's a tired product on tired planes and tired crew.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- nathcun 8y agoIf, like me, you fly regularly between the UK and Ireland they're by far the best value and the service is no different to any other carrier.
- rusk 8y agoI would take issue with this. The service with Ryanair is awful. I have never experienced rudeness from cabin crew of other airlines like I have of Ryanair.
- raphaelj 8y agoTry to fly with American or United.
- nathcun 8y agoI've flown with them nearly fortnightly for the past two years and never had an issue with them. I guess I don't often have much cause to interact with the staff.
- rusk 8y agoI've had an issue every single time - usually on the return route to Dublin funnily enough. Could be because I'm not flying so frequently alright, in a non-business frame of mind ... always more things to go wrong for a holiday traveler.
- mugsie 8y ago
- mrarjen 8y agoFlights I had on Ryanair are merely 1 or max 2 hours long, (not taking the driving up and down the runways in account) and for this period of time some discomfort is perfectly fine.
- rusk 8y agothe driving up and down the runways can be a significant factor. Ryanair think nothing of keeping their passengers on the tarmac for hours on end.
- maccard 8y agoThe same is true for other airlines. Anecdotal, but I've been stranded in airports/on planes far more often with other airlines than I have with ryanair.
- isostatic 8y agoI've taken about 500 flights in the last decade or so, I can count on one hand the number of delays of over 2 hours * Moscow 2013 to Heathrow -- 4 more hours in the lounge, got €600 compensation. * Heathrow 2014 to Bangkok, 5 more hours in the lounge -- got €600 compensation. * Toronto 2017 -- delayed Delta flight to New York to catch a Virgin flight to Manchester so was downgraded and rerouted on KLM. No compensation as it was a U.S. airline. Lesson learned. (No lounge access either so cost me several beers) I wasn't flying during the Volcano incident. I do remember being delayed overnight with ryanair due to weather, but that was c. 2003. They wouldn't reroute me on the next morning flight to Anconna (rather than my original Forli flight -- only 50 miles away), so I had to buy a new ticket. It's attitudes like that which is the reason EU261 came in.
- mrarjen 8y agoThat EU261 is great yes, TBH I have earned money on the last 3 flights I have taken thanks to this system. All of those were long distance and had delays between 10 and 15 hour. It somewhat compensates for the lost time.
- antihero 8y agoI fly to Europe regularly with Ryanair, it's been amazing in the amount of places I've been able to go with very little money. Most Europe flights are 1-3 hours. Just get pissed enough at the Stanstead Wetherspoons that you don't give a fuck! Another tip: If they put a yellow tag on your bag to make you check it in the hold, either quickly rip it off between the gate and the plane, or hold your bag so they don't see it. Cabin crew don't know who's bag has been tagged.
- dnh44 8y agoI didn't realise that Ryanair fly outside of Europe but I can see now that they do have a few locations such as Morocco and Israel. But do you actually mean Ryanair or do you mean Air Europa, whom Ryanair seems to be a reseller for (transatlantic flights)?
- dazc 8y agoFor some routes in Europe they are hard to avoid and, to be fair, some other budget airlines are not so much better that it's worth the effort.
- dark_ph0enix 8y agoBeat me to it.
- clu3l355 8y agoCompared to the other budget providers (Easyjet, Flybe [who frankly, aren't even budget prices]), they're miles ahead. The Easyjet routes I used to fly regularly were late every single time, and a member of airport staff told me ~50% of Easyjet flights were delayed in that particular airport. While Ryanair is certainly super basic, and they take every opportunity to sell you tat, they've been far more consistent and far cheaper than the alternatives in my experience
- dazc 8y agoAgree Flybe are not always cheap but I find them much more laid back about checking in and such. I recently had a friend visit me in Spain from the UK and he is a very nervous flyer. The way they treat him was absolutely commendable. I doubt he'd of even got on the plane with some other airlines.
- KozmoNau7 8y agoI don't fly on those, either. The lowest I'm willing to go is Norwegian, and I'll absolutely choose a provider like SAS or Swiss or Lufthansa, if the prices are even remotely close. Swiss has by far the best chocolate on their flights, BTW :-)
- Aardwolf 8y agoIsn't aisle seat at least as annoying as middle seat? People walking through the aisle bump into your shoulder all the time, and the stream of people walking through it almost never stops. It's not like you can use it as leg space. Middle is worst of both worlds, except at least you don't get a constant stream of moving people right next to you
- gargravarr 8y agoHowever, you can get up to either stretch your legs or use the restroom whenever you like. I always go with an aisle seat.
- nathcun 8y agoI'd say Window > Aisle > Middle. Middle definitely to be avoided.
- amorphid 8y agoAs a large person, I can say the aisle is definitely where I want to be. There is a good chance I'll be able to raise the arm rest on the aisle side of my seat, which gives me more room to fidget. I can also more easily get up to stretch. For contrast, I once had to sit in the middle seat between two people larger than I was, and behind a person who reclined their seat. And when I'm sitting at the window, my head can bump into the curved body of the plane, which is quite obnoxious. Aisle seat all the way for me!
- rusk 8y ago
- neonhomer 8y agoI don't understand the issue with paying to choose your seat on the budget airlines. My wife and I recently flew Spirit to and Southwest from our destination in the US. Even after adding bags and seat (we even paid for their big front seats) it was still cheaper than Southwest.
- tomrod 8y agoEconomically, no issue. They are price discriminating to their hearts content and letting people get what they want. Psychologically, it feels like being taken advantage of. No brand loyalty or other customer value to be had. Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along.
- babuskov 8y agoI'm actually very loyal to Ryanair because I know I can book late and still get any seat I want (because most people never book their seats). The only issue I have with RA is that some airports they use are far outside the cities they "cover", so you sometimes need an hour or more (by a train or bus) to get into the actual city.
- mseebach 8y ago> Expect people to abandon in droves when similarly priced travel comes along. I would expect Ryanair to be fine with that. Their business model is that a very large subset of passengers select their flights based on price, and price alone, that price is the only customer value that matters. They are explicitly not investing in fluffy brand loyalty. I fly a lot on expensive, flexible tickets on legacy carriers, and have status, so I'm reasonably "loyal", and have fast track and lounge access to show for it, but the BS airlines come up with that is supposed to make non-status holders in economy "feel the brand" (despite the objectively sad quality of the hard product) triggers my gag reflex.
- tomrod 8y agoI agree completely.
- jmkd 8y agoYou say you fly a lot with Ryanair, be great to add some real data to support your plausible hypothesis.
- nathcun 8y agoI'm not sure when this change came into play but I reckon I've had the middle seat once, after flying Ryanair on average fortnightly for the last two years. I don't get boarding passes emailed to me so I don't have access to them any more, so can't give actual data unfortunately.
- dmurray 8y agoThe article assumes that Ryanair always gives middle seats to the first passengers who check in and don't pay for middle seats. The eventual conclusion is that you should check in later to avoid getting the middle seat. I don't see why the R analysis and pretty visualizations are necessary for that. Sadly the article lacks evidence that this is the algorithm Ryanair uses. They could equally well hold back the middle seats and offer them to the passengers most likely to pay for an upgrade. In fact, since on a full flight the hypothesized algorithm (give middle seats to the first passengers to check in) should not improve Ryanair's outcome over the old algorithm (give middle seats to the last passengers to check in) I'd guess they are indeed doing something like that.
- nathcun 8y agoYou're right. I'm making an assumption of what Ryanair's system is based on the outrage people have at being deliberately assigned middle seats. Ryanair have admitted however that they prioritise window and aisle seats for paying passengers. My analysis took this to an extreme, which may not be the case. And I agree, an R analysis is unnecessary but I've been telling people this conclusion for ages and they don't seem to get it!
- rocqua 8y agoRyan air might use a system where the probability of getting a middle seat is biased upwards, but not quite guaranteed. In that case, there has to be a critical point for the bias where it switches from "Better check in late" to "better check in early". Because with no bias (the first simulation) we have "better check in early" and with maximal bias (second simulation) we have "better check in late". I'd guess that this critical point depends on the proportion of pre-booked seats. I wonder if Ryan air balanced the bias so it lies roughly at this critical point. This comes with the 'upside' of being more fair, as this system can't be gamed by changing your check-in time.
- mannykannot 8y agoThe article specifically says that there is statistical evidence showing that Ryanair does, in fact, preferentially allocate base-fare paying users to middle seats. Though the article does not explicitly say that the evidence supports a particular variant of the algorithm, your particular alternative does not seem to alter the underlying reasoning here, which is that if you check in late enough, all the middle seats have been allocated. Once that happens, you are not going to be allocated a middle seat, regardless of how the airline allocates the remainder. (This could, however, change your odds of getting a middle seat earlier in the process, and whether a later check-in leaves you more prone to being bumped (which I assume Ryanair does unless it is forbidden by law) is another issue to consider.) Update: I see that Ryanair does not overbook, which puts some perspective on the complaints about it - I don't care about meals but I do about the risk of being bumped. Update 2: I overlooked one part of the alternative algorithm, but I think that it actually makes it less likely: if they are holding back middle seats on the chance of upselling to later arrivals, where are they going to put those people? It seems that they are likely to end up with a bunch of middle seats with no chance of upselling even to passengers who would have done so, or possibly having (even more) disgruntled passengers who paid to choose but got a middle seat anyway, depending on exactly how this scheme works.
- leonk 8y agoLittle trick that I do when travelling as a couple: Get one randomly allocated seat, and then pay for the other one next to it (or as close by as possible).
- fwdpropaganda 8y agoSo... you pay for two seats every time you fly? Edit: Oh, it's a trick for couples. Very smart.
- validationerror 8y agoWell, with Ryanair that's often still cheaper by a considerable amount than with other airlines.
- johnny_and1 8y agoI thought that all travelling couples did this. I compare it with being allowed to change the door that you can open on a TV show. The costs of choosing two side-by-side seats are greater than choosing just one seat, except for the extra room row. It also depends a bit on the length of the flight. Longer flights make you pay more for choosing a seat.
- dazc 8y agoYou can't do that with some airlines though since random seats are allocated at check-in, not when you book. It seems like an obvious loophole I would have expected other airlines to have spotted?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mosselman 8y agoRyanair is a horrible airline. If you add up random costs you are confronted with during the whole process of flying with them they aren't even that much cheaper. With which I mean expensive meals/drinks, costs for suitcases, costs for checking in at the airport when you didn't have access to internet, etc. Leg space and general facilities are crappy and their handling of cancelled flights, etc is very poor. Whenever possible I don't fly with them en instead choose a more 'expensive' option.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago> Ryanair is a horrible airline. If you add up random costs you are confronted with during the whole process of flying with them they aren't even that much cheaper. Withwhich I mean expensive meals/drinks, costs for suitcases, costs for checking in at the airport when you didn't have access to internet, etc. Complete BS. Cost of expensive meals and cost for suitcases aren't "random costs". They are entirely predictable and you have to make your decisions based on that. The people who can't do that end up paying for the ones that do.
- gberger 8y agoI think he means arbitrary and unconventional, not random.
- mseebach 8y agoThey're not arbitrary, they are well know and well documented, to the point of being really, really annoying for those of us who knows we don't want them. They were perhaps a bit unconventional ten years ago, but perfectly middle of the road today, even for legacy carriers.
- icebraining 8y agoPaying for food is arbitrary?
- mosselman 8y agoYes, thank you.
- xab9 8y agoAfaik Wizz does the same randomization logic, it's a new "feature" though :(
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Guest9812398 8y agoI've taken a number of Ryanair flights this year. Assigning the middle seats to non-paying passengers backfires sometimes. I booked tickets with my girlfriend. Almost 50% of the seats were still available (this was a month before the flight), but all the middle seats were taken. We wanted to pay for seats beside each other, but that wasn't possible, because they gave away all the middle seats. When there are three seats on each side of the aisle, that means no two seats are available beside each other. So, we didn't pay, we just took the random seats, and then asked people to switch after we boarded. We probably could have paid for a window and aisle seat, then asked the middle person to happily switch, but if we're paying for seats, we shouldn't have to do that.