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From my experience racism is more subtle in those european countries. E.g. you only get disadvantaged in more anonymous situations, but never actively excluded

From my experience racism is more subtle in those european countries. E.g. you only get disadvantaged in more anonymous situations, but never actively excluded or attacked in person. I live in Switzerland and noticed that especially when looking for jobs. When I was in middle school we had to look for apprenticeships to do after we finished school. In my class 5 of 20 were foreigners, and only I found a place (after a long struggle). It wasn't based on grades since we all had equal or better grades than native students, and neither was it based on personality since we didn't even get invited to inverviews at all... There are people that even legally changed their surname so it doesn't sound too foreign. There is especially strong bias against people from the Balkan region.

m_fayer 9y ago
I know the situation in the US and here in Germany, and if I had dark skin I'm really not sure which poison I'd choose. In Germany a Westernized dark-skinned person will feel quite comfortable, but when it comes to things like competing for promotions, investments, capital, heck even flats, and etc. - they will tend to lose out a little too often. People in positions of power, while friendly, have a strong and unexamined tendency to gravitate towards their comfort zone. They're looking for a good gut feeling, for trustworthiness, for what seems like a good match - and, shocker, those feelings are most often produced by upper middle class to rich native-born German men. It's pervasive, and I don't see much talk here about the need to overcome discomfort and implicit bias, at least not among the elites. In fact, any suggestion that they should step outside of their comfort zone produces resentment, more often than not. So, in Germany, you don't need to worry about the police, or about random aggression all that much. But you'll face a glass ceiling. And while everyday existence for the same person in America may be menacing and emotionally oppressive, America is also the country where 2 of the major tech companies have Indian CEOs, and no one blinks an eye. Germany is still very far from that, unfortunately.
- Pharylon 9y ago
  That's more a Silicon Valley culture than an American one. Not to say California isn't part of America, but that same glass ceiling exists in most places in America, and it's probably lower.

m_fayer 9y ago

I know the situation in the US and here in Germany, and if I had dark skin I'm really not sure which poison I'd choose. In Germany a Westernized dark-skinned person will feel quite comfortable, but when it comes to things like competing for promotions, investments, capital, heck even flats, and etc. - they will tend to lose out a little too often. People in positions of power, while friendly, have a strong and unexamined tendency to gravitate towards their comfort zone. They're looking for a good gut feeling, for trustworthiness, for what seems like a good match - and, shocker, those feelings are most often produced by upper middle class to rich native-born German men. It's pervasive, and I don't see much talk here about the need to overcome discomfort and implicit bias, at least not among the elites. In fact, any suggestion that they should step outside of their comfort zone produces resentment, more often than not. So, in Germany, you don't need to worry about the police, or about random aggression all that much. But you'll face a glass ceiling. And while everyday existence for the same person in America may be menacing and emotionally oppressive, America is also the country where 2 of the major tech companies have Indian CEOs, and no one blinks an eye. Germany is still very far from that, unfortunately.

Pharylon 9y ago
That's more a Silicon Valley culture than an American one. Not to say California isn't part of America, but that same glass ceiling exists in most places in America, and it's probably lower.