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Successfully trading value with an anonymous third party over the internet, without fear if them renegging, seems to be all that's required to demonstrate this.

Successfully trading value with an anonymous third party over the internet, without fear if them renegging, seems to be all that's required to demonstrate this. Before bitcoin this wasn't possible without trust in a third party, as far as I'm aware. No paper needed.

hudon 8y ago
What makes you think Bitcoin will remain anonymous? At the end of the day, nothing prevents banks from end-to-end encrypting payments and thus making our bank transactions anonymous. The reason they don't is because people don't care, not because "blockchain tech" is needed, whatever that means. On the flip side, if we as a society decide that anonymous online payments is a net negative for the good of society, then making bitcoin mining, trading and acceptance illegal basically kills it. At that point, literally only criminals would use it, and even then its use is debatable because if the speculative use case is dead and the developers are all anonymous or in jail, I don't think bitcoin's value could hold long enough for a criminal to buy it, send it, and then sell it successfully without losing a significant amount of the initial value. Anyway, we're both speculating here. Like I said, if "science" is going to be brought to the table, I'd like to see the science backing your claims. For example, do you have research showing that no trust is required to make bitcoin work? Can the system survive without us trusting the developers, chip manufacturers and miners?
- Shoue 8y ago
  Bitcoin's privacy isn't very powerful so I wouldn't be worried that some government would rule it illegal based on that. Consider the scenario where you go to a grocery store, your transaction points to your face because of surveillance in the store. Buying something online, your transaction points to your physical address. You'd still have to trust the people you trade with, otherwise you lose anonymity, and your transactions and amounts can be traced. Now they know how much you earn, how much you spend, where you spend, when you spend, etc. It's very hard as an average consumer relying on Bitcoin to avoid being traced without trusting another third-party, e.g. an exchange or similar service that allows you to "cut connecting strings".
  - hudon 8y ago
    > Bitcoin's privacy isn't very powerful so I wouldn't be worried that some government would rule it illegal based on that. The most populated country in the world had no issue making all cryptocurrencies illegal. If we can't find something useful and non-criminal to do with Bitcoin, I wouldn't exclude the possibility of at least mining being made illegal. Why should we spend so much of our planet's resources for proof-of-work if it's only to fuel crime?

hudon 8y ago

What makes you think Bitcoin will remain anonymous? At the end of the day, nothing prevents banks from end-to-end encrypting payments and thus making our bank transactions anonymous. The reason they don't is because people don't care, not because "blockchain tech" is needed, whatever that means. On the flip side, if we as a society decide that anonymous online payments is a net negative for the good of society, then making bitcoin mining, trading and acceptance illegal basically kills it. At that point, literally only criminals would use it, and even then its use is debatable because if the speculative use case is dead and the developers are all anonymous or in jail, I don't think bitcoin's value could hold long enough for a criminal to buy it, send it, and then sell it successfully without losing a significant amount of the initial value. Anyway, we're both speculating here. Like I said, if "science" is going to be brought to the table, I'd like to see the science backing your claims. For example, do you have research showing that no trust is required to make bitcoin work? Can the system survive without us trusting the developers, chip manufacturers and miners?

Shoue 8y ago
Bitcoin's privacy isn't very powerful so I wouldn't be worried that some government would rule it illegal based on that. Consider the scenario where you go to a grocery store, your transaction points to your face because of surveillance in the store. Buying something online, your transaction points to your physical address. You'd still have to trust the people you trade with, otherwise you lose anonymity, and your transactions and amounts can be traced. Now they know how much you earn, how much you spend, where you spend, when you spend, etc. It's very hard as an average consumer relying on Bitcoin to avoid being traced without trusting another third-party, e.g. an exchange or similar service that allows you to "cut connecting strings".
- hudon 8y ago
  > Bitcoin's privacy isn't very powerful so I wouldn't be worried that some government would rule it illegal based on that. The most populated country in the world had no issue making all cryptocurrencies illegal. If we can't find something useful and non-criminal to do with Bitcoin, I wouldn't exclude the possibility of at least mining being made illegal. Why should we spend so much of our planet's resources for proof-of-work if it's only to fuel crime?