>>That low initial barrier is easier to climb You're mostly rewriting my points. Let's leave this for half a year and discuss it again. It seems we both need t

>>That low initial barrier is easier to climb You're mostly rewriting my points. Let's leave this for half a year and discuss it again. It seems we both need to let it fes.. think about it. :-) Or at least I know I do. What I'm trying to say, I think, is that there is a tension between flexible/pluggable frameworks and integrated ones, like with e.g. Emacs and simple IDEs. (Yeah, there are IDEs on top of Emacs; those doesn't remove complexity.) (The main complexity problem with Emacs isn't the code which is neat with the lisp layer (imho, I'm very far from being a real Emacs hacker). The complexity is use complexity -- lots of modes, etc. More broad than deep.) But unless some totally new idea comes along, people will use Emacs when we both have forgotten the present frameworks... >>I get frustrated with my VIM configuration sometimes because I forget the less used keybindings I haven't used vi for quite a few years. There is still no good search/browsing/M-x? Never mind, some really good people use vim, so I assume there is something there.