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I’m a Penn State grad and have been hearing about this from a couple of people, glad to see it’s getting wider attention. If the “no cell service” issue is rea

I’m a Penn State grad and have been hearing about this from a couple of people, glad to see it’s getting wider attention. If the “no cell service” issue is really the problem, this is even more embarrassing. Satellite phones are a thing, and if they can’t afford the subscription for that, then get a subscriptionless emergency satellite beacon instead. They cost a few hundred dollars. It’s even run by an international treaty with many satellite networks listening for these alerts and forwarding them to local authorities. Works pretty much anywhere in the world and costs less than most cell phones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas-Sarsat_Programme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas-Sarsat_Pr... Risk management my ass. If they were really concerned about the safety of students it wouldn’t be a football school.

stephencanon 9y ago
Yup. My wife and I have both led trips into deep backcountry at a few schools; risk management made us bring along a sat phone, that was that.
wlesieutre 9y ago
>Cospas-Sarsat was conceived and initiated by Canada, France, the United States, and the former Soviet Union in 1979. Maybe I should write the risk management people a letter in case they haven’t heard about this yet.
crankylinuxuser 9y ago
> Risk management my ass. If they were really concerned about the safety of students it wouldn’t be a football school. But, what about all that sweet, sweet sportsball money? Oh yeah, TBI? Nahh, the helmets are "safe".
- noobermin 9y ago
  Snark aside, I think you hit on the main point. Bean counters have a two columns whenever they assess something, the value in profit a venture brings and the potential costs. They find the profit they derive from football more than covers the cost that they have to bear, while allowing students (adults, mind you) to go on outing trips has more potential cost than profit. So, under the system we've given them, they made a rational decision.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    It could be that the risk management department would like to shut down football but doesn't have the political power to do so since there are so many people invested in keeping that going. PSOC is a convenient soft target without anyone on the payroll to defend it, so risk management is in a position to do whatever they want.
  - mindslight 9y ago
    Sure, but the root of the problem is that beancounters shouldn't be anywhere near such a "decision". We're reinventing totalitarianism through insurance companies.
- smileysteve 9y ago
  Penn State and helmets are the risk you bring up? If only Penn State had a recent highly publicized event regarding its staff and deans that probably should have killed their football program forever - from a risk assessment pov at least.
haZard_OS 9y ago
As a trained risk assessor, I call BS on Penn. I would love to get a copy of the official risk analysis but, alas, I doubt one was ever performed.
lmilcin 9y ago
I am not a Penn State grad but I have suspicion that there is simple explanation. The explanation is marketing. As students are less and less independent, the decisions are made my more and more concerned parents. Parents that don't want their "kids" engaging in "risky" activities. The actual risk has nothing to do with this, only perception of it. My school organized trips to wilderness and I took part in it when I was 9. There were no phones, no satellites. This was cold war Poland and the bears and wolves were present in the woods. Yet I never heard anything really dangerous happening to anybody unless you ask for problems (like climbing a steep rock face without safeties). You are probably safer in the wilderness than on the city street.
- cjrp 9y ago
  > Parents that don't want their "kids" engaging in "risky" activities. Penn State is a university for adults, no? Not a nursery or something.
  - lmilcin 9y ago
    That would seem to be but that is not what is happening. Young men and women may be of legal age but are not at all independent financially or mentally from their parents. Financially, it is more and more difficult with each year as education costs inflate, to be able to afford education yourself. There were times when you could get a job and be able to survive through university but I think this is past. At the same time parents became crazy for safety and behave overprotective of their kids. This means it is more difficult for the young adult to take independent decision and when faced with conflict they will more likely yield to parents. The parents themselves, being crazy for safety, are less and less approving of any activities that may be contrived to be unsafe for children. Your kids sensibilities can be hurt? That's a no no... Lack of cell coverage... don't even think about it.
    - cjrp 9y ago
      Interesting, so you think it comes down to "I'm paying $x/year for you to be at the school, you are forbidden from taking part in dangerous activities". If so, that's really quite sad - university should be a time where you transition into adulthood and are responsible for your own decisions (good and bad).

stephencanon 9y ago

Yup. My wife and I have both led trips into deep backcountry at a few schools; risk management made us bring along a sat phone, that was that.

wlesieutre 9y ago

>Cospas-Sarsat was conceived and initiated by Canada, France, the United States, and the former Soviet Union in 1979. Maybe I should write the risk management people a letter in case they haven’t heard about this yet.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago

> Risk management my ass. If they were really concerned about the safety of students it wouldn’t be a football school. But, what about all that sweet, sweet sportsball money? Oh yeah, TBI? Nahh, the helmets are "safe".

noobermin 9y ago
Snark aside, I think you hit on the main point. Bean counters have a two columns whenever they assess something, the value in profit a venture brings and the potential costs. They find the profit they derive from football more than covers the cost that they have to bear, while allowing students (adults, mind you) to go on outing trips has more potential cost than profit. So, under the system we've given them, they made a rational decision.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  It could be that the risk management department would like to shut down football but doesn't have the political power to do so since there are so many people invested in keeping that going. PSOC is a convenient soft target without anyone on the payroll to defend it, so risk management is in a position to do whatever they want.
- mindslight 9y ago
  Sure, but the root of the problem is that beancounters shouldn't be anywhere near such a "decision". We're reinventing totalitarianism through insurance companies.
smileysteve 9y ago
Penn State and helmets are the risk you bring up? If only Penn State had a recent highly publicized event regarding its staff and deans that probably should have killed their football program forever - from a risk assessment pov at least.

haZard_OS 9y ago

As a trained risk assessor, I call BS on Penn. I would love to get a copy of the official risk analysis but, alas, I doubt one was ever performed.

lmilcin 9y ago

I am not a Penn State grad but I have suspicion that there is simple explanation. The explanation is marketing. As students are less and less independent, the decisions are made my more and more concerned parents. Parents that don't want their "kids" engaging in "risky" activities. The actual risk has nothing to do with this, only perception of it. My school organized trips to wilderness and I took part in it when I was 9. There were no phones, no satellites. This was cold war Poland and the bears and wolves were present in the woods. Yet I never heard anything really dangerous happening to anybody unless you ask for problems (like climbing a steep rock face without safeties). You are probably safer in the wilderness than on the city street.

cjrp 9y ago
> Parents that don't want their "kids" engaging in "risky" activities. Penn State is a university for adults, no? Not a nursery or something.
- lmilcin 9y ago
  That would seem to be but that is not what is happening. Young men and women may be of legal age but are not at all independent financially or mentally from their parents. Financially, it is more and more difficult with each year as education costs inflate, to be able to afford education yourself. There were times when you could get a job and be able to survive through university but I think this is past. At the same time parents became crazy for safety and behave overprotective of their kids. This means it is more difficult for the young adult to take independent decision and when faced with conflict they will more likely yield to parents. The parents themselves, being crazy for safety, are less and less approving of any activities that may be contrived to be unsafe for children. Your kids sensibilities can be hurt? That's a no no... Lack of cell coverage... don't even think about it.
  - cjrp 9y ago
    Interesting, so you think it comes down to "I'm paying $x/year for you to be at the school, you are forbidden from taking part in dangerous activities". If so, that's really quite sad - university should be a time where you transition into adulthood and are responsible for your own decisions (good and bad).