4 ms·

wont LED screens cause more stress on the eyes than a projection? I hate 3D movies, my eyes feel very tired from the constant refocusing. I think LED screens at

wont LED screens cause more stress on the eyes than a projection? I hate 3D movies, my eyes feel very tired from the constant refocusing. I think LED screens at this size and in a dark environment would have the same effect.

modeless 8y ago
No, why would they?
- sathackr 8y ago
  Most LEDs have their brightness controlled via PWM, which essentially switches the LED on and off many thousand times per second. You can see this in most LED car taillights if you move your eyes while paying attention to the light -- it will create a 'strobe' effect, a trail of images along the path that it traveled in your field of view. Some people are sensitive to this flicker. A similar thing happens with most DLP projectors.
  - LeoPanthera 8y ago
    Most people could barely perceive the flicker of 60Hz CRT televisions. The kHz refresh of LEDs is not perceptible.
    - sathackr 8y ago
      There are plenty of people[1] that can perceive whatever PWM frequency is typically used in vehicle LED taillights. Like a few the people in the linked forum, the switching in the vertical Cadillac tail lights are particularly visible to me. I agree that when viewed directly, it's quite unlikely anyone can perceive a switching frequency in the thousands of hertz. But if you sit in one of the closer seats, your eyes will be darting back and forth across the screen, which would be enough for that strobe effect to bother me if the frequency is anywhere near what is used in the taillights. [1] https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=45126.0 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=451...
    - steffan 8y ago
      I’m able to reliably detect flicker up to ~ 80Hz. Made for expensive monitors back in the CRT days
    - deelowe 8y ago
      Crts don't switch on an off. The phospher decays much more slowly then a switched diode.
  - modeless 8y ago
    I hate PWM car taillights, but I doubt that LED screens will have the same problems. PWM is not the only way to control LED brightness and even PWM can be OK if the frequency is high enough. Also, projectors already flicker.
    - zackbloom 8y ago
      What other methods are there to control LED brightness?
      - TheSoftwareGuy 8y ago
        PWM is just one (very inexpensive) way to implement a DAC (digital to analog converter). Other methods actually set the output voltage to the target voltage, such as a R-2R ladder. I don't think R-2R ladders are used very much in practice anymore but I can't remember any other implementations off the top of my head.
      - nadavami 8y ago
        The other main way would be using a constant current driver[1]. By adjusting the amount of current to the LED, you can control the brightness. [1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256336/does-led-brightness-change-with-voltage https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256336/does-...
      - sigstoat 8y ago
        LEDs are current devices; any mechanism for controlling current precisely can be used to control LED brightness. there are a lot of them.
      - obl 8y ago
        running a smaller, continuous, current through them. PWM is done because it's cheap to implement given a fixed power rail and a digital control : need a single/couple of power switches that can even be integrated on die for low-ish power targets. continuous things usually need some kind of discrete filters, that means more components etc
      - 8y ago
  - 6t6t6t6 8y ago
    I have some kind of "flickering sensitivity" (if this is a thing). I bought a retina MBP about 4-5 years ago and I had to return it because it was killing me. After 30 minutes watching the screen, I had terrible headaches and my vision was becoming blury for the next hours. Now I have a new (2017) MBP and I don't have any problem anymore, so I guess that they improved the technology somehow.
    - sathackr 8y ago
      Plasma TVs do it to me also. It used to drive me nuts to go into a Best Buy and look at a wall of plasma TVs. Looking up the retina displays, I see they are either IPS or OLED. The IPS likely has an LED backlight, and OLED is...LED. So a flicker is possible if they used PWM to limit the current to the LEDs. Did you notice any change in the effect at different brightness levels?
      - shaggerty 8y ago
        The only Apple device with an OLED screen is the iPhone X; the built-in displays on the 2012-2015 retina MacBook Pros as well as the ones made after the 2016 redesign are IPS with a 60hz refresh rate. There were issues with the graphics on the mid 2012 to early 2013 retina MacBook Pros - perhaps the parent got one of the defective models.
        dingo_bat 8y ago
        > The only Apple device with an OLED screen is the iPhone X I think the iWatch also has an OLED panel.
        shaggerty 8y ago
        All three of them do! I'm not sure how it slipped my mind. Thankfully, Cunningham's Law [1]. [1]https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law
- skynetv2 8y ago
  do you enjoy watching movie on a tablet in a dark environment? i think its a similar experience. i have no eye strain from watching a projection.
rurban 8y ago
No, to the contrary. The image is sharper, the contrast is higher, the display is active, not passive. This helps the eye. Think of Amuled smartphone displays with its superior quality.
majewsky 8y ago
> I hate 3D movies, my eyes feel very tired from the constant refocusing. Does anyone here actually prefer 3D over 2D movies? I go out of my way to attend 2D screenings, even though my local cinema only offers these at very inconvenient times (starting after 22:00), probably to skew the numbers in favor of the (more expensive) 3D tickets.

modeless 8y ago

No, why would they?

sathackr 8y ago
Most LEDs have their brightness controlled via PWM, which essentially switches the LED on and off many thousand times per second. You can see this in most LED car taillights if you move your eyes while paying attention to the light -- it will create a 'strobe' effect, a trail of images along the path that it traveled in your field of view. Some people are sensitive to this flicker. A similar thing happens with most DLP projectors.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Most people could barely perceive the flicker of 60Hz CRT televisions. The kHz refresh of LEDs is not perceptible.
  - sathackr 8y ago
    There are plenty of people[1] that can perceive whatever PWM frequency is typically used in vehicle LED taillights. Like a few the people in the linked forum, the switching in the vertical Cadillac tail lights are particularly visible to me. I agree that when viewed directly, it's quite unlikely anyone can perceive a switching frequency in the thousands of hertz. But if you sit in one of the closer seats, your eyes will be darting back and forth across the screen, which would be enough for that strobe effect to bother me if the frequency is anywhere near what is used in the taillights. [1] https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=45126.0 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=451...
  - steffan 8y ago
    I’m able to reliably detect flicker up to ~ 80Hz. Made for expensive monitors back in the CRT days
  - deelowe 8y ago
    Crts don't switch on an off. The phospher decays much more slowly then a switched diode.
- modeless 8y ago
  I hate PWM car taillights, but I doubt that LED screens will have the same problems. PWM is not the only way to control LED brightness and even PWM can be OK if the frequency is high enough. Also, projectors already flicker.
  - zackbloom 8y ago
    What other methods are there to control LED brightness?
    - TheSoftwareGuy 8y ago
      PWM is just one (very inexpensive) way to implement a DAC (digital to analog converter). Other methods actually set the output voltage to the target voltage, such as a R-2R ladder. I don't think R-2R ladders are used very much in practice anymore but I can't remember any other implementations off the top of my head.
    - nadavami 8y ago
      The other main way would be using a constant current driver[1]. By adjusting the amount of current to the LED, you can control the brightness. [1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256336/does-led-brightness-change-with-voltage https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/256336/does-...
    - sigstoat 8y ago
      LEDs are current devices; any mechanism for controlling current precisely can be used to control LED brightness. there are a lot of them.
    - obl 8y ago
      running a smaller, continuous, current through them. PWM is done because it's cheap to implement given a fixed power rail and a digital control : need a single/couple of power switches that can even be integrated on die for low-ish power targets. continuous things usually need some kind of discrete filters, that means more components etc
    - 8y ago
- 6t6t6t6 8y ago
  I have some kind of "flickering sensitivity" (if this is a thing). I bought a retina MBP about 4-5 years ago and I had to return it because it was killing me. After 30 minutes watching the screen, I had terrible headaches and my vision was becoming blury for the next hours. Now I have a new (2017) MBP and I don't have any problem anymore, so I guess that they improved the technology somehow.
  - sathackr 8y ago
    Plasma TVs do it to me also. It used to drive me nuts to go into a Best Buy and look at a wall of plasma TVs. Looking up the retina displays, I see they are either IPS or OLED. The IPS likely has an LED backlight, and OLED is...LED. So a flicker is possible if they used PWM to limit the current to the LEDs. Did you notice any change in the effect at different brightness levels?
    - shaggerty 8y ago
      The only Apple device with an OLED screen is the iPhone X; the built-in displays on the 2012-2015 retina MacBook Pros as well as the ones made after the 2016 redesign are IPS with a 60hz refresh rate. There were issues with the graphics on the mid 2012 to early 2013 retina MacBook Pros - perhaps the parent got one of the defective models.
      - dingo_bat 8y ago
        > The only Apple device with an OLED screen is the iPhone X I think the iWatch also has an OLED panel.
        shaggerty 8y ago
        All three of them do! I'm not sure how it slipped my mind. Thankfully, Cunningham's Law [1]. [1]https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law
skynetv2 8y ago
do you enjoy watching movie on a tablet in a dark environment? i think its a similar experience. i have no eye strain from watching a projection.

rurban 8y ago

No, to the contrary. The image is sharper, the contrast is higher, the display is active, not passive. This helps the eye. Think of Amuled smartphone displays with its superior quality.

majewsky 8y ago

> I hate 3D movies, my eyes feel very tired from the constant refocusing. Does anyone here actually prefer 3D over 2D movies? I go out of my way to attend 2D screenings, even though my local cinema only offers these at very inconvenient times (starting after 22:00), probably to skew the numbers in favor of the (more expensive) 3D tickets.