4 ms·

I'm the exact opposite. I admire the ideas in serious books, but the style puts me off. I struggled to get through Invincible. Comedic Lem is just pure brillan

by ajuc 9y ago

I'm the exact opposite. I admire the ideas in serious books, but the style puts me off. I struggled to get through Invincible. Comedic Lem is just pure brillance, still high on ideas, but also very easy to read. But I read them in Polish, and I imagine translating Cyberiad can't be easy. BTW if you like serious, abstract sci-fi try Jacek Dukaj. He's often described as a successor to Lem, even if his style is IMHO something between Lem and Greg Egan. I believe only one of his books was translated to English so far, but surely they will follow with others, he's very good.

ttctciyf 9y ago
Regards translating the Cyberiad, the famous scene where Klapaucius tests Trurl's AI poetry machine has been translated by Michael Kandel: “Have it compose a poem — a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter S!!” “And why not throw in a full exposition of the general theory of nonlinear automata while you’re at it?” growled Trurl. “You can’t give it such idiotic — ” But he didn’t finish. A melodious voice filled the hall with the following: “Seduced, shaggy Samson snored. She scissored short. Sorely shorn, Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed, Silently scheming, Sightlessly seeking Some savage, spectacular suicide.” ... I don't know any Polish, but having found a more literal rendering of the original[1] it seems Kandel has not made it worse! 1: https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-snored-725b5a8086d9 https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-snored-72...
- gbhn 9y ago
  I've enjoyed this translation many times, and wondered how difficult a job it must have been to adequately do this translation!
  - Finnucane 9y ago
    I once asked Michael how he translated the list of imaginary things beginning with 'N' destroyed by Trurl's machine in the process of making 'nothing.' His answer: 'I made it up.'
- ajuc 9y ago
  Kandel cheated a little by giving himself more interesting task, but in the end it's even better than the original. More universal and emotional, when original was just funny.
flohofwoe 9y ago
I found that certain Lem books are best read at a certain age :) So I'm re-reading through the whole canon to see if I've reached the right age for books that didn't interest me at a younger age. (I'm reading the (East-) German translations which are mostly excellent). The Invincible was my favourite Lem book as a teenager (next to the Star Diaries of course), Piece On Earth is a good book for 20-something, and Fiasco for the 30's. Now I'm feeling like I'm getting ready for Lem's more gloomy philosophical books, and maybe as an old man I will start to enjoy his silly works...
- ajuc 9y ago
  It might have something to do with it. My uncle had almost whole Lem bibliography and I read most of these books first time as a teenager :)
- te0006 9y ago
  Looking back to my youth in Eastern Germany, in which I devoured each and every Lem book, I will never fathom how his novel "Wizja lokalna" ("Eyewitness Account") (1982) was able to make it past the censors of this communist state and could appear as "Lokaltermin" in 1985. In large part "Kurdlandia", one of the two antagonized superpowers protagonist Pirx visits on planet Entia, is the most biting satire about an ossified, bureaucratic political system having just one objective left - keeping up the pretense that the cadaver of their ideology is still alive (which the inhabitants are forced to do in a rather literal, and absolutely hilarious sense). Now that the Eastern bloc has been long gone this part of the book is more of historic relevance. But another large part is an in-depth exploration about where a free society is headed when AI and nanotechnology converge, all matter is penetrated and controlled by intelligent subatomic particles and the resulting omniscient, omnipresent "ethosphere" is programmed to keep all its human inhabitants happy. For instance, by avoiding all physical harm before it can actually happen. It's probably not too suprising that the citizens of "Lozannia" (the other Entian superpower, where this techno-social development occurs) are _not_ consistently happy, despite all optimization ("hedonization") efforts of their government. And then there is the brilliant comical premise of the book: Avoiding interstellar armed conflict is difficult because any and all real strategic intelligence about other civilizations comes too late due to the speed-of-light limit - therefore humankind uses fast-forward simulations of history on other planets. Now these simulations outputted two diplomatic notes from Entia to Earth threatening military action unless allegedly misstated descriptions of Entia in Pirx' earlier reports (in The Star Diaries) would be corrected immediately. (Both Entian superpowers had done/were about to take this step independently. And boy was the Lozannian note cool - I remember laughing for minutes after reading that page.) So Pirx boards his spaceship and flies to Entia again for a detailed on-the-spot investigation. Finally, that voyage makes up another unique part of the book - to entertain pilot Pirx on the long and boring spaceflight, he has received AI-based simulated copies of several philosophers and writers: Popper, Feyerabend, Shakespeare to name a few. Interesting dialogue ensues (as you might expect, the bard speaks only in iambic pentameter). So this book combines deep philosophical thinking with sheer hilarity. Hence, suitable for all ages, even though not too many readers will enjoy _all_ parts. In a 1986 interview [1] Lem explains the background of the book. What really blew my mind when discovering this interview recently is _why_ he wrote it - not because of the cold war, but since he was worried w.r.t. the challenges he very clearly foresaw for the _next_ phase of human history. Around 1980, no less. This man was prescient. Too bad no english translation of this novel is available AFAIK. But as Lem himself admits in [2], the text is a translator's nightmare. [1] https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/lem40interview.htm https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/lem40interview.htm [2] https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/abstracts/a40.htm https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/abstracts/a40.htm
flyingfences 9y ago
I read Cyberiad in English - it did't seem like a translation; it just seemed like the product of an eccentric author, which I imagine is right on the money.

by ajuc 9y ago

ttctciyf 9y ago

Regards translating the Cyberiad, the famous scene where Klapaucius tests Trurl's AI poetry machine has been translated by Michael Kandel: “Have it compose a poem — a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter S!!” “And why not throw in a full exposition of the general theory of nonlinear automata while you’re at it?” growled Trurl. “You can’t give it such idiotic — ” But he didn’t finish. A melodious voice filled the hall with the following: “Seduced, shaggy Samson snored. She scissored short. Sorely shorn, Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed, Silently scheming, Sightlessly seeking Some savage, spectacular suicide.” ... I don't know any Polish, but having found a more literal rendering of the original[1] it seems Kandel has not made it worse! 1: https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-snored-725b5a8086d9 https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-snored-72...

gbhn 9y ago
I've enjoyed this translation many times, and wondered how difficult a job it must have been to adequately do this translation!
- Finnucane 9y ago
  I once asked Michael how he translated the list of imaginary things beginning with 'N' destroyed by Trurl's machine in the process of making 'nothing.' His answer: 'I made it up.'
ajuc 9y ago
Kandel cheated a little by giving himself more interesting task, but in the end it's even better than the original. More universal and emotional, when original was just funny.

flohofwoe 9y ago

I found that certain Lem books are best read at a certain age :) So I'm re-reading through the whole canon to see if I've reached the right age for books that didn't interest me at a younger age. (I'm reading the (East-) German translations which are mostly excellent). The Invincible was my favourite Lem book as a teenager (next to the Star Diaries of course), Piece On Earth is a good book for 20-something, and Fiasco for the 30's. Now I'm feeling like I'm getting ready for Lem's more gloomy philosophical books, and maybe as an old man I will start to enjoy his silly works...

ajuc 9y ago
It might have something to do with it. My uncle had almost whole Lem bibliography and I read most of these books first time as a teenager :)
te0006 9y ago
Looking back to my youth in Eastern Germany, in which I devoured each and every Lem book, I will never fathom how his novel "Wizja lokalna" ("Eyewitness Account") (1982) was able to make it past the censors of this communist state and could appear as "Lokaltermin" in 1985. In large part "Kurdlandia", one of the two antagonized superpowers protagonist Pirx visits on planet Entia, is the most biting satire about an ossified, bureaucratic political system having just one objective left - keeping up the pretense that the cadaver of their ideology is still alive (which the inhabitants are forced to do in a rather literal, and absolutely hilarious sense). Now that the Eastern bloc has been long gone this part of the book is more of historic relevance. But another large part is an in-depth exploration about where a free society is headed when AI and nanotechnology converge, all matter is penetrated and controlled by intelligent subatomic particles and the resulting omniscient, omnipresent "ethosphere" is programmed to keep all its human inhabitants happy. For instance, by avoiding all physical harm before it can actually happen. It's probably not too suprising that the citizens of "Lozannia" (the other Entian superpower, where this techno-social development occurs) are _not_ consistently happy, despite all optimization ("hedonization") efforts of their government. And then there is the brilliant comical premise of the book: Avoiding interstellar armed conflict is difficult because any and all real strategic intelligence about other civilizations comes too late due to the speed-of-light limit - therefore humankind uses fast-forward simulations of history on other planets. Now these simulations outputted two diplomatic notes from Entia to Earth threatening military action unless allegedly misstated descriptions of Entia in Pirx' earlier reports (in The Star Diaries) would be corrected immediately. (Both Entian superpowers had done/were about to take this step independently. And boy was the Lozannian note cool - I remember laughing for minutes after reading that page.) So Pirx boards his spaceship and flies to Entia again for a detailed on-the-spot investigation. Finally, that voyage makes up another unique part of the book - to entertain pilot Pirx on the long and boring spaceflight, he has received AI-based simulated copies of several philosophers and writers: Popper, Feyerabend, Shakespeare to name a few. Interesting dialogue ensues (as you might expect, the bard speaks only in iambic pentameter). So this book combines deep philosophical thinking with sheer hilarity. Hence, suitable for all ages, even though not too many readers will enjoy _all_ parts. In a 1986 interview [1] Lem explains the background of the book. What really blew my mind when discovering this interview recently is _why_ he wrote it - not because of the cold war, but since he was worried w.r.t. the challenges he very clearly foresaw for the _next_ phase of human history. Around 1980, no less. This man was prescient. Too bad no english translation of this novel is available AFAIK. But as Lem himself admits in [2], the text is a translator's nightmare. [1] https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/lem40interview.htm https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/lem40interview.htm [2] https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/abstracts/a40.htm https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/abstracts/a40.htm

flyingfences 9y ago

I read Cyberiad in English - it did't seem like a translation; it just seemed like the product of an eccentric author, which I imagine is right on the money.