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>>Many countries that have essentially completely banned guns somehow have also managed to have low injury / death rates. As long as you go back only a few yea

>>Many countries that have essentially completely banned guns somehow have also managed to have low injury / death rates. As long as you go back only a few years - many of those same countries have experienced genocides and holocausts from their powerful governments acting against a disarmed citizenry and driving their long-term violent death rates to astronomical levels. I would say that this observation is relevant because the argument for citizens being armed is to curtail the abuse of a powerful government.

reitanqild 8y ago
Sadly this is true. This is what guns are supposed to protect you against.
archagon 8y ago
At this moment in history, I am way more concerned about the thread of far-right violence than of a derelict government that needs to be put down. What if the people hoarding the guns end up allying with an authoritarian regime instead of rising up against it?
- reitanqild 8y ago
  In that case the authoritarian regime already has all the guns it needs and the threat is not significantly bigger than before.
acdha 8y ago
> many of those same countries have experienced genocides and holocausts from their powerful governments acting against a disarmed citizenry More from the fact that a few armed citizens aren’t a match for an industrial state’s military. The Jews in the Warsaw uprising had guns, grenades, etc. but nowhere near enough people to defend against an army. If you want to avoid atrocities, strong civil institutions matter a lot more than fantasies about LARPing Somalia.
- reitanqild 8y ago
  > The Jews in the Warsaw uprising had guns, grenades, etc. but nowhere near enough people to defend against an army. Well, they delayed the Germans. That is impressive. Another time when the international community isn't too busy looking the other way it might buy enough time to save some people. > If you want to avoid atrocities, strong civil institutions matter a lot more Don't disagree. But there is no conflict between driving carefully and also wearing a seat belt.

reitanqild 8y ago

Sadly this is true. This is what guns are supposed to protect you against.

archagon 8y ago

At this moment in history, I am way more concerned about the thread of far-right violence than of a derelict government that needs to be put down. What if the people hoarding the guns end up allying with an authoritarian regime instead of rising up against it?

reitanqild 8y ago
In that case the authoritarian regime already has all the guns it needs and the threat is not significantly bigger than before.

acdha 8y ago

> many of those same countries have experienced genocides and holocausts from their powerful governments acting against a disarmed citizenry More from the fact that a few armed citizens aren’t a match for an industrial state’s military. The Jews in the Warsaw uprising had guns, grenades, etc. but nowhere near enough people to defend against an army. If you want to avoid atrocities, strong civil institutions matter a lot more than fantasies about LARPing Somalia.

reitanqild 8y ago
> The Jews in the Warsaw uprising had guns, grenades, etc. but nowhere near enough people to defend against an army. Well, they delayed the Germans. That is impressive. Another time when the international community isn't too busy looking the other way it might buy enough time to save some people. > If you want to avoid atrocities, strong civil institutions matter a lot more Don't disagree. But there is no conflict between driving carefully and also wearing a seat belt.