3 ms·

Stockton to Sunnyvale is 80-100 mils one way. And I imagine working people who have to live in Stockton or Tracy because they can't afford living near work in S

by Fins 9y ago

Stockton to Sunnyvale is 80-100 mils one way. And I imagine working people who have to live in Stockton or Tracy because they can't afford living near work in SV probably aren't buying extended range Teslas. Most likely don't have any chargers at home either.

mikeash 9y ago
Someone like that probably can’t afford any EV with a range to even make that trip one way. Affordability isn’t really there yet. That’s something that’s also true with hydrogen cars and so has little bearing on the relative advantages and disadvantages of hydrogen and batteries.
- Fins 9y ago
  True. Which is why ICE isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But if prices could be brought down (i.e. by mass production), fuel-cell/hydrogen vehicles would work, but electrics still would not. Although at this time I do wonder what could possibly move one to purchase a Mirai.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Cost and range are closely related when it comes to batteries. A 500 mile range would cover almost everything, and should be practical before too long, and affordable eventually. Tesla’s new Roadster will have a 600 mile range, although the price is absurd.
    - Fins 9y ago
      Eventually, and we don't know what might happen with fuel cell technology before that. It is likely to always be faster to refill.
      - mikeash 9y ago
        BEVs are vastly faster to refill in many cases if you measure what really matters (driver waiting time). If you look at the current state of things, hydrogen cars are even more expensive and are impossible to own in most of the country. That might change in the future but it’s hard to match the infrastructure advantage of having millions of “fueling stations” in the form of electrical outlets, and BEVs continue to improve as well.
        Fins 9y ago
        Oh, no argument that hydrogen cars are ridiculously priced and practically useless (I guess that's why they only sell them in California). As battery capacity improves, charging from a regular outlet will only take longer and longer. And driver waiting time is short only if you can charge at home and never care about going anywhere beyond the charging range. It does work for a large number of people, but is a non-starter for a large segment as well.

by Fins 9y ago

mikeash 9y ago

Someone like that probably can’t afford any EV with a range to even make that trip one way. Affordability isn’t really there yet. That’s something that’s also true with hydrogen cars and so has little bearing on the relative advantages and disadvantages of hydrogen and batteries.

Fins 9y ago
True. Which is why ICE isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But if prices could be brought down (i.e. by mass production), fuel-cell/hydrogen vehicles would work, but electrics still would not. Although at this time I do wonder what could possibly move one to purchase a Mirai.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Cost and range are closely related when it comes to batteries. A 500 mile range would cover almost everything, and should be practical before too long, and affordable eventually. Tesla’s new Roadster will have a 600 mile range, although the price is absurd.
  - Fins 9y ago
    Eventually, and we don't know what might happen with fuel cell technology before that. It is likely to always be faster to refill.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      BEVs are vastly faster to refill in many cases if you measure what really matters (driver waiting time). If you look at the current state of things, hydrogen cars are even more expensive and are impossible to own in most of the country. That might change in the future but it’s hard to match the infrastructure advantage of having millions of “fueling stations” in the form of electrical outlets, and BEVs continue to improve as well.
      - Fins 9y ago
        Oh, no argument that hydrogen cars are ridiculously priced and practically useless (I guess that's why they only sell them in California). As battery capacity improves, charging from a regular outlet will only take longer and longer. And driver waiting time is short only if you can charge at home and never care about going anywhere beyond the charging range. It does work for a large number of people, but is a non-starter for a large segment as well.