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Because when people update from 2.1.1 to 3.0.0, they would lose their custom playlists. Indeed, it is a bit annoying, but we considered that it was not worth fi

by jbk 9y ago

Because when people update from 2.1.1 to 3.0.0, they would lose their custom playlists. Indeed, it is a bit annoying, but we considered that it was not worth fixing that, notably for the FireTV UI, where it is very hard to create some playlists, therefore not many people are impacted.

logicallee 9y ago
Hi, First of all I appreciate the work all of you put into VLC. This is my media player on desktop. I've tried lots of other players but always ended up going back. In my respectful opinion as an outsider with no Amazon Fire device or association with Amazon, an update should not lose user bookmarks, playlists, documents, etc. Users should feel confident clicking "update" on any software, ever. I am sure you can empathize with your users if you consider what might happen if you updated Chrome or Firefox and lost all of your bookmarks. It is easy to see how users might feel the same way about playlists they put work into. (Some users might even feel the same way about something much more trivial such as what page number they were on in each book in an ebook reader. If the ebook reader changes some internal structure it's easy to see how the new version might not migrate that stuff. I personally would find this okay, since I could find my old place within a few minutes.) To try to empathize: how many hours might some of your users have spent making a custom playlist? There is something big and important here: helping users feel confident always clicking "update" without a second thought. Although the amount of work seems excessive in this case (and would be even more excessive in an ebook reader that has to export all of page numbers you're on, even if this is difficult technically) I think the secondary effect might be worth it. I definitely see your point of view too, just thought I would offer this perspective. Thanks again for all of your work, which I appreciate.
- jbk 9y ago
  > an update should not lose user bookmarks, playlists, documents, etc. I'm waiting for your patch. I'm very happy for your volunteering.
  - dane-pgp 9y ago
    You may not like what the parent is (politely) saying, but your response is toxic.
    - sah2ed 9y ago
      No actually, jbk is being honest and realistic. The cost to fix the bug is currently too great for them to devote resources to fixing it correctly, so s/he is merely trying to economize scarce resources here. This is an open source project we are talking about here, not a paid product. If the gp thinks they have time on their hands, then by all means, the project will gladly accept patches.
      - dane-pgp 9y ago
        jbk was not being honest or realistic, though. The gp was not volunteering, and jbk is not waiting for their patch. It's fine to say "We don't have the resources to fix this", but jbk's sarcastic remark is not the best way to convey this. Of course, jbk is welcome to phrase their comments however they want, but I don't think that the way they chose was the most effective way to invite patches (and the gp presumably already knew that a valid patch would be accepted).
        sah2ed 9y ago
        I think you and I mostly agree but I will try to address the possible source of your disagreement with his phrasing. @jbk's original phrasing was: I'm waiting for your patch. I'm very happy for your volunteering. You probably think his first sentence is sarcasm but it is not for two reasons: 1. He followed it up with a gentler "I'm very happy for your volunteering." 2. I've been online long enough to know that his phrasing is a bit odd, a hint that the commenter is likely not a native speaker. For a bit more context regarding #2, my suspicion is not unfounded. I remember the @jbk nickname from this highly upvoted post [0] last year, where he did something in the interest of the VLC project that a lot of people would find incredibly difficult to do under similar circumstances. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048
drtillberg 9y ago
I've gotten used to the android VLC functionality where it simply offers to play what is in storage. I'm not quite wrapping my head around what would be lost, why it matters, and why the playlist can't just be another object in storage. I am constantly amazed that high-quality independent open-source projects like VLC are maintained so well, year after year.
- jbk 9y ago
  > why the playlist can't just be another object in storage. You got both: file playlists and playlists in the database.
mabbo 9y ago
> they would lose their custom playlists > So, I'm not even sure that we can fix that in a correct way. Got a link to an issue tracker for this? You're posting about a hard technical bug for an open source project to a community with "hacker" in the name. Maybe someone has a good idea.
justinclift 9y ago
Does the mobile version of VLC 3 also have the regression (from 2.x.x) of not handling [] characters in playlist paths and playlist item entries? https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/19594 https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/19594 On desktop's at least it's generally not too terrible for the end user to manually rename things to work again. On mobile though, I'm not sure.
johnklos 9y ago
Does that mean that VLC 3.0.0 will now be approved, since there now are no playlists to preserve?
- jbk 9y ago
  Nope, that's the point: 3.0.0 will migrate playlists from the old stable version, but not from this beta version, because of a bug in this specific version. And they don't want us to update it without this issue fixed.
  - mort96 9y ago
    I'm curious, why was the beta version pushed to the app store?
    - jbk 9y ago
      Good point. Because Amazon requested it, because it was solving a major issue with playback of their new device at the time.
      - xigency 9y ago
        This seems kind of moot, but is it possible to drop this type of playlist feature from VLC 3.0 and remove it from scope? If the feature has a blocking bug you could maybe just drop that feature entirely.
      - lostmsu 9y ago
        Maybe stupid question, but why not rename beta to VLC Beta, and release 3.0 as VLC?
  - fencepost 9y ago
    3.0.0 will migrate playlists from the old stable version, but not from this beta version, because of a bug in this specific version When you say "this specific version" as containing a bug are you referring to "this beta version" or "3.0.0"?
teovall 9y ago
Because your UI is bad and makes it difficult to create playlists, you don't want to bother fixing your bug that causes users' data to be lost, and you blame all of this on Amazon. I know you do all of this for free, but that doesn't mean you can blame all of your mistakes and problems on Amazon.
- oblio 9y ago
  Another comment by the developer says that the new release improves the UI...
- flyingcircus3 9y ago
  I see a whole bunch of assumptions and demands for a piece of free software that no one demanded you use. In regards to who he can blame, and can't blame, can we all decide to blame you if he decides he's sick of ungrateful users and just stops development all together?
compsciphd 9y ago
why not release it as vlc3, not as an upgrade to the previous release, so people could have oth installed side by side if they wanted?

by jbk 9y ago

logicallee 9y ago

Hi, First of all I appreciate the work all of you put into VLC. This is my media player on desktop. I've tried lots of other players but always ended up going back. In my respectful opinion as an outsider with no Amazon Fire device or association with Amazon, an update should not lose user bookmarks, playlists, documents, etc. Users should feel confident clicking "update" on any software, ever. I am sure you can empathize with your users if you consider what might happen if you updated Chrome or Firefox and lost all of your bookmarks. It is easy to see how users might feel the same way about playlists they put work into. (Some users might even feel the same way about something much more trivial such as what page number they were on in each book in an ebook reader. If the ebook reader changes some internal structure it's easy to see how the new version might not migrate that stuff. I personally would find this okay, since I could find my old place within a few minutes.) To try to empathize: how many hours might some of your users have spent making a custom playlist? There is something big and important here: helping users feel confident always clicking "update" without a second thought. Although the amount of work seems excessive in this case (and would be even more excessive in an ebook reader that has to export all of page numbers you're on, even if this is difficult technically) I think the secondary effect might be worth it. I definitely see your point of view too, just thought I would offer this perspective. Thanks again for all of your work, which I appreciate.

jbk 9y ago
> an update should not lose user bookmarks, playlists, documents, etc. I'm waiting for your patch. I'm very happy for your volunteering.
- dane-pgp 9y ago
  You may not like what the parent is (politely) saying, but your response is toxic.
  - sah2ed 9y ago
    No actually, jbk is being honest and realistic. The cost to fix the bug is currently too great for them to devote resources to fixing it correctly, so s/he is merely trying to economize scarce resources here. This is an open source project we are talking about here, not a paid product. If the gp thinks they have time on their hands, then by all means, the project will gladly accept patches.
    - dane-pgp 9y ago
      jbk was not being honest or realistic, though. The gp was not volunteering, and jbk is not waiting for their patch. It's fine to say "We don't have the resources to fix this", but jbk's sarcastic remark is not the best way to convey this. Of course, jbk is welcome to phrase their comments however they want, but I don't think that the way they chose was the most effective way to invite patches (and the gp presumably already knew that a valid patch would be accepted).
      - sah2ed 9y ago
        I think you and I mostly agree but I will try to address the possible source of your disagreement with his phrasing. @jbk's original phrasing was: I'm waiting for your patch. I'm very happy for your volunteering. You probably think his first sentence is sarcasm but it is not for two reasons: 1. He followed it up with a gentler "I'm very happy for your volunteering." 2. I've been online long enough to know that his phrasing is a bit odd, a hint that the commenter is likely not a native speaker. For a bit more context regarding #2, my suspicion is not unfounded. I remember the @jbk nickname from this highly upvoted post [0] last year, where he did something in the interest of the VLC project that a lot of people would find incredibly difficult to do under similar circumstances. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048

drtillberg 9y ago

I've gotten used to the android VLC functionality where it simply offers to play what is in storage. I'm not quite wrapping my head around what would be lost, why it matters, and why the playlist can't just be another object in storage. I am constantly amazed that high-quality independent open-source projects like VLC are maintained so well, year after year.

jbk 9y ago
> why the playlist can't just be another object in storage. You got both: file playlists and playlists in the database.

mabbo 9y ago

> they would lose their custom playlists > So, I'm not even sure that we can fix that in a correct way. Got a link to an issue tracker for this? You're posting about a hard technical bug for an open source project to a community with "hacker" in the name. Maybe someone has a good idea.

justinclift 9y ago

Does the mobile version of VLC 3 also have the regression (from 2.x.x) of not handling [] characters in playlist paths and playlist item entries? https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/19594 https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/19594 On desktop's at least it's generally not too terrible for the end user to manually rename things to work again. On mobile though, I'm not sure.

johnklos 9y ago

Does that mean that VLC 3.0.0 will now be approved, since there now are no playlists to preserve?

jbk 9y ago
Nope, that's the point: 3.0.0 will migrate playlists from the old stable version, but not from this beta version, because of a bug in this specific version. And they don't want us to update it without this issue fixed.
- mort96 9y ago
  I'm curious, why was the beta version pushed to the app store?
  - jbk 9y ago
    Good point. Because Amazon requested it, because it was solving a major issue with playback of their new device at the time.
    - xigency 9y ago
      This seems kind of moot, but is it possible to drop this type of playlist feature from VLC 3.0 and remove it from scope? If the feature has a blocking bug you could maybe just drop that feature entirely.
    - lostmsu 9y ago
      Maybe stupid question, but why not rename beta to VLC Beta, and release 3.0 as VLC?
- fencepost 9y ago
  3.0.0 will migrate playlists from the old stable version, but not from this beta version, because of a bug in this specific version When you say "this specific version" as containing a bug are you referring to "this beta version" or "3.0.0"?

teovall 9y ago

Because your UI is bad and makes it difficult to create playlists, you don't want to bother fixing your bug that causes users' data to be lost, and you blame all of this on Amazon. I know you do all of this for free, but that doesn't mean you can blame all of your mistakes and problems on Amazon.

oblio 9y ago
Another comment by the developer says that the new release improves the UI...
flyingcircus3 9y ago
I see a whole bunch of assumptions and demands for a piece of free software that no one demanded you use. In regards to who he can blame, and can't blame, can we all decide to blame you if he decides he's sick of ungrateful users and just stops development all together?

compsciphd 9y ago

why not release it as vlc3, not as an upgrade to the previous release, so people could have oth installed side by side if they wanted?