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Everyone just acted like this was a huge scandal. One guy on roids beat all the other guys on roids. Plain and simple. He just had to be made an example of, by

Everyone just acted like this was a huge scandal. One guy on roids beat all the other guys on roids. Plain and simple. He just had to be made an example of, by people he had pissed off. And he was brought down by his own disgruntled teammates. Not by a + test. It's widely known that athletes at the highest level have encountered people who use roids. If you just don't inject yourself to the gills with it and cycle out, you stand a good chance of passing the test. You can use it and compete with the rest, or you can choose to not use it and watch the others run past you in a pace you thought was supernatural. Bikers used to drink alcohol and climb the hills in the Tour all the time. Is alcohol not performance enhancing when it dulls the throbbing pain in your legs? Bring those cyclists down too. Then you'll have everyone's support. Make a league for people who want to use roids, and for the ones who don't. It'll multiply your revenue 2x, organisers.

reallymental 8y ago
would the downvoters care to point out their reasoning?
- cup-of-tea 8y ago
  I didn't downvote (I don't do that because it creates echo chambers), but there is more to it than what you wrote. The article linked gives you some clues but essentially Armstrong was the guy driving the doping. Many other guys followed his lead so that they could compete and that was certainly the wrong thing to do but many of us do similar things in our workplaces.
  - reallymental 8y ago
    Thanks for taking the time to reply, I did read the article. I just typed my statement out in haste. I'll reel in that habit.
- _Wintermute 8y ago
  > Make a league for people who want to use roids, and for the ones who don't. It'll multiply your revenue 2x, organisers. Then you'll have teams pressuring competitors to take more and more drugs, it will become a doping arms race that will end up with serious health risks and deaths. There are already cases in the late 80's, early 90's of cyclists dying in their sleep because their haematocrit levels were so high their blood because too viscous to pump when their heart rate dropped too low. That and your use of the word "roids" and "bikers" makes me think you're not well read up on the subject.
  - reallymental 8y ago
    I see, thank you for taking the time to explain your reasoning behind it. My vernacular did highlight the haste at which I typed it out. I should have given my points more thought.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Strawman and inaccurate to boot. Hint: doping in cycling doesn't refer to steroids.
  - reallymental 8y ago
    Thanks for replying, I didn't expect anyone to reply tbh. I encompassed 'roids' to mean more than just steroids in my mind, including EPO's and blood doping, when I was typing it out furiously. I'll correct myself.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      The strawman is the larger element.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      "I encompassed 'roids' to mean more than just steroids in my mind, including EPO's and blood doping, when I was typing it out furiously." the fact that you wrote this indicates to me that you don't really know much about doping and probably sport either.
Lio 8y ago
For starters, although Armstrong took testosterone supplements he is mostly accused of using blood doping and EPO. We don't need to "bring down" those who drink alcohol. Drinking alcohol makes you slower not faster. The reason that we don't just let cyclists like Armstrong just use any "supplements" they want in a special league is because they then pressurise their domestiques to do the same. This is what Armstrong tried to do with Frankie Andreu. There are serious long and short term health implications to that, see Tyler Hamilton's description of taking a "bad" blood transfusion in The Secret Race. Many professional cyclists died from "mysterious" night time heart attacks. Some just young neo-pros. Can you really say that they understood the risks of over thickened blood? I think we'd all be happier if Armstrong and the other cheats found a country where it's legal to dope and set up a dirty league there and left the UCI sanctioned events clean. Of course the dopers would then have to contend with a new generation of cheats trying to sneak eBikes into the drugs only league.
- Someone 8y ago
  ”We don't need to "bring down" those who drink alcohol.” For a small set of sports, alcohol was on the banned substance list until last year (https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2016-09-29_-_wada_prohibited_list_2017_eng_final.pdf https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files...) I think the fact that it makes you more relaxed is (thought to be) performance-enhancing in sports such as archery and shooting. It also was on the list in airplane, motorboat, and car racing. I think that was because of safety concerns. It still may be forbidden in archery in some competitions (https://worldarchery.org/news/153442/statement-wadas-withdrawal-alcohol-banned-substances-list https://worldarchery.org/news/153442/statement-wadas-withdra...)
  - walrus01 8y ago
    Chess has an anti doping policy: https://www.fide.com/fide/fide-anti-doping-regulations.html https://www.fide.com/fide/fide-anti-doping-regulations.html though I'm curious what sorts of nootropics or mental alertness drugs a grandmaster level player might be tempted to use. Adderal?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jdietrich 8y ago
Armstrong was the chief enforcer of the omerta. He is personally responsible for preventing others from speaking out about doping. He ended the careers of two riders and successfully sued a British newspaper for libel. He dominated the most prestigious event in cycling through the most sophisticated doping operation in the history of the sport. Armstrong (and the flood of sponsorship money he brought with him) fundamentally changed the culture of professional cycling for the worse. Armstrong wasn't alone in doping, but he thoroughly deserved to be made an example of. He posed an existential threat to the sport of cycling and the mistakes that allowed his reign must never be repeated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Simeoni#Feud_with_Lance_Armstrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Simeoni#Feud_with_Lanc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Bassons#1999_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Bassons#1999_Tour https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/08/27/lance-armstrong-payback-for-sunday-times-libel-that-wasnt/#2aaddcf11925 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/08/27/lance-arm...

reallymental 8y ago

would the downvoters care to point out their reasoning?

cup-of-tea 8y ago
I didn't downvote (I don't do that because it creates echo chambers), but there is more to it than what you wrote. The article linked gives you some clues but essentially Armstrong was the guy driving the doping. Many other guys followed his lead so that they could compete and that was certainly the wrong thing to do but many of us do similar things in our workplaces.
- reallymental 8y ago
  Thanks for taking the time to reply, I did read the article. I just typed my statement out in haste. I'll reel in that habit.
_Wintermute 8y ago
> Make a league for people who want to use roids, and for the ones who don't. It'll multiply your revenue 2x, organisers. Then you'll have teams pressuring competitors to take more and more drugs, it will become a doping arms race that will end up with serious health risks and deaths. There are already cases in the late 80's, early 90's of cyclists dying in their sleep because their haematocrit levels were so high their blood because too viscous to pump when their heart rate dropped too low. That and your use of the word "roids" and "bikers" makes me think you're not well read up on the subject.
- reallymental 8y ago
  I see, thank you for taking the time to explain your reasoning behind it. My vernacular did highlight the haste at which I typed it out. I should have given my points more thought.
dredmorbius 8y ago
Strawman and inaccurate to boot. Hint: doping in cycling doesn't refer to steroids.
- reallymental 8y ago
  Thanks for replying, I didn't expect anyone to reply tbh. I encompassed 'roids' to mean more than just steroids in my mind, including EPO's and blood doping, when I was typing it out furiously. I'll correct myself.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    The strawman is the larger element.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "I encompassed 'roids' to mean more than just steroids in my mind, including EPO's and blood doping, when I was typing it out furiously." the fact that you wrote this indicates to me that you don't really know much about doping and probably sport either.

Lio 8y ago

For starters, although Armstrong took testosterone supplements he is mostly accused of using blood doping and EPO. We don't need to "bring down" those who drink alcohol. Drinking alcohol makes you slower not faster. The reason that we don't just let cyclists like Armstrong just use any "supplements" they want in a special league is because they then pressurise their domestiques to do the same. This is what Armstrong tried to do with Frankie Andreu. There are serious long and short term health implications to that, see Tyler Hamilton's description of taking a "bad" blood transfusion in The Secret Race. Many professional cyclists died from "mysterious" night time heart attacks. Some just young neo-pros. Can you really say that they understood the risks of over thickened blood? I think we'd all be happier if Armstrong and the other cheats found a country where it's legal to dope and set up a dirty league there and left the UCI sanctioned events clean. Of course the dopers would then have to contend with a new generation of cheats trying to sneak eBikes into the drugs only league.

Someone 8y ago
”We don't need to "bring down" those who drink alcohol.” For a small set of sports, alcohol was on the banned substance list until last year (https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2016-09-29_-_wada_prohibited_list_2017_eng_final.pdf https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files...) I think the fact that it makes you more relaxed is (thought to be) performance-enhancing in sports such as archery and shooting. It also was on the list in airplane, motorboat, and car racing. I think that was because of safety concerns. It still may be forbidden in archery in some competitions (https://worldarchery.org/news/153442/statement-wadas-withdrawal-alcohol-banned-substances-list https://worldarchery.org/news/153442/statement-wadas-withdra...)
- walrus01 8y ago
  Chess has an anti doping policy: https://www.fide.com/fide/fide-anti-doping-regulations.html https://www.fide.com/fide/fide-anti-doping-regulations.html though I'm curious what sorts of nootropics or mental alertness drugs a grandmaster level player might be tempted to use. Adderal?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jdietrich 8y ago

Armstrong was the chief enforcer of the omerta. He is personally responsible for preventing others from speaking out about doping. He ended the careers of two riders and successfully sued a British newspaper for libel. He dominated the most prestigious event in cycling through the most sophisticated doping operation in the history of the sport. Armstrong (and the flood of sponsorship money he brought with him) fundamentally changed the culture of professional cycling for the worse. Armstrong wasn't alone in doping, but he thoroughly deserved to be made an example of. He posed an existential threat to the sport of cycling and the mistakes that allowed his reign must never be repeated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Simeoni#Feud_with_Lance_Armstrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Simeoni#Feud_with_Lanc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Bassons#1999_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Bassons#1999_Tour https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/08/27/lance-armstrong-payback-for-sunday-times-libel-that-wasnt/#2aaddcf11925 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/08/27/lance-arm...