6 ms·

The future of electronics based on memristive systems

87 points by stealthcat 8y ago

kensai 8y ago
The last paragraph is everything! "We conclude by noting that biology has always served and will continue to serve as a great inspiration to develop methods for achieving lower-power and real-time learning systems. However, just as birds in nature may have inspired modern aeronautics technology, we eventually moved in new directions and capabilities for faster travel, larger carrying capacities and entirely different fuelling requirements. Similarly, in computing, modern application needs to go beyond those faced in nature, such as searching large databases, efficiently scheduling resources or solving highly coupled sets of differential equations. Interestingly, some of the observed characteristics in memristors may similarly provide ‘beyond biology’ opportunities in computing, taking advantage of the novel device dynamical behaviour and the network topology inspired by biology. In this regard, concepts such as the memory processing unit represent truly exciting opportunities down the road. To achieve these and other new computing systems of the future will require persistent and creative research that goes beyond any single discipline, and must include insights from neuroscience, physics, chemistry, computer science, and electrical and computer engineering, among others."
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  I don’t understand. Can someone please dumb it down one setting on the dial? What makes this obviously superbiologically capable?
  - T-A 8y ago
    The obvious things are size, speed and integration with existing computers. A neuron is measured in micrometers, a memristor in nanometers (and the paper suggests even single-atom devices may be possible). A neuron can fire at most a couple hundred times per second; a memristor has "subnanosecond switching speed", i.e. it operates in the usual GHz operating frequency range of modern computers. And you can integrate them at the circuit level, so they can draw on the superbiological capabilities of existing computers at native speed.
    - igorkraw 8y ago
      Downsides: * routing is a BITCH * cooling is a BITCH * noise is a slightly nicer BITCH * we are very early in building real stuff with this But yeah, it's cool, I hope it works out (otherwise I chose a deadend/false start for my PhD :-)
    - p1esk 8y ago
      You should be comparing memristors to synapses, not to neurons.
igorkraw 8y ago
I've just started a PhD on neuromorphic memristive Systems at EPFL, so if someone wants to ask questions/chat about this I will do my best to serve. Here or via the contact info in my profile:)
- fooker 8y ago
  Do you see new programming paradigms emerging from this?
  - igorkraw 8y ago
    I am actually working on this partially...I wouldn't call it new paradigms, but dataflow, probabilistic computing and parallel by default paradigms like VHDL or CUDA would be my best guess if the wildest dreams come true and we actually reroute physical chips to make new models. But only in the lower layers(similar to XDA abstracts stuff already for you on tensorflow). At the end, "all" I see happening in the near future will be * ISA extensions to have accelerators similar to the ones we have for Crypto/RNG and especially vectorization (crossbar matrix multipliers <3 ) * custom chips being made using the standard custom/semicustom design flows, just including memristive and maybe neuromorphic cells * maybe something akin to FPGA programming, especially since intel might be integrating their new Altera into consumer devices https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-completes-acquisition-of-altera/ https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-completes-acq...
- godelmachine 8y ago
  Which is the most plausible application of neuromorphic memristive system that has the potential to reach the mass market with minimal hassles?
  - igorkraw 8y ago
    The one I'm working on for my PhD thesis ;-) No seriously? These guys here with their DVS: https://inivation.com/ https://inivation.com/ They are already on the market. It's not compute, but it is an awesomely HDR,low latency image sensor which gets you a motion gradient for free. Downside is no colour and no static images, but as a supplementary chip for stabilzation, for robotics or low power "wake up" camera and all those applications it is in my opinion already worth considering, and if the software and algorithmic side of image processing catches up to event stream based sensor data this will be quite awesome. Disclaimer: I'm acquainted with some of the people who worked on this and think they are all quite lovely people, so might be biased.
kurtisc 8y ago
Beyond replacing current transistor logic, I find it theoretically pleasing that memristors fill the gap to complete the linking of current, voltage, charge, and flux with the existing 3 fundamental passive devices. What would basic circuit analysis lessons look like 10 years after they become commonplace?
- twtw 8y ago
  > What would basic circuit analysis lessons look like 10 years after they become commonplace? Exactly the same as they do now. Memristors aren't linear time-invariant, so it's extremely unlikely that they would show up in a basic circuit analysis lesson.
  - contoraria 8y ago
    Not even inductors or caps are in a basic circuit analysis course. But this quadriga of passive components was at least mentioned in the very beginning of the first ee semester, components class which focused the physical effects (and was notoriously hard).
coldtea 8y ago
The "future" should be in quotes. Articles have been selling these BS for 20 years now --- and we're gonna get the same articles for the next 30 years at least....

87 points by stealthcat 8y ago

The last paragraph is everything! "We conclude by noting that biology has always served and will continue to serve as a great inspiration to develop methods for achieving lower-power and real-time learning systems. However, just as birds in nature may have inspired modern aeronautics technology, we eventually moved in new directions and capabilities for faster travel, larger carrying capacities and entirely different fuelling requirements. Similarly, in computing, modern application needs to go beyond those faced in nature, such as searching large databases, efficiently scheduling resources or solving highly coupled sets of differential equations. Interestingly, some of the observed characteristics in memristors may similarly provide ‘beyond biology’ opportunities in computing, taking advantage of the novel device dynamical behaviour and the network topology inspired by biology. In this regard, concepts such as the memory processing unit represent truly exciting opportunities down the road. To achieve these and other new computing systems of the future will require persistent and creative research that goes beyond any single discipline, and must include insights from neuroscience, physics, chemistry, computer science, and electrical and computer engineering, among others."

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
I don’t understand. Can someone please dumb it down one setting on the dial? What makes this obviously superbiologically capable?
- T-A 8y ago
  The obvious things are size, speed and integration with existing computers. A neuron is measured in micrometers, a memristor in nanometers (and the paper suggests even single-atom devices may be possible). A neuron can fire at most a couple hundred times per second; a memristor has "subnanosecond switching speed", i.e. it operates in the usual GHz operating frequency range of modern computers. And you can integrate them at the circuit level, so they can draw on the superbiological capabilities of existing computers at native speed.
  - igorkraw 8y ago
    Downsides: * routing is a BITCH * cooling is a BITCH * noise is a slightly nicer BITCH * we are very early in building real stuff with this But yeah, it's cool, I hope it works out (otherwise I chose a deadend/false start for my PhD :-)
  - p1esk 8y ago
    You should be comparing memristors to synapses, not to neurons.

igorkraw 8y ago

I've just started a PhD on neuromorphic memristive Systems at EPFL, so if someone wants to ask questions/chat about this I will do my best to serve. Here or via the contact info in my profile:)

fooker 8y ago
Do you see new programming paradigms emerging from this?
- igorkraw 8y ago
  I am actually working on this partially...I wouldn't call it new paradigms, but dataflow, probabilistic computing and parallel by default paradigms like VHDL or CUDA would be my best guess if the wildest dreams come true and we actually reroute physical chips to make new models. But only in the lower layers(similar to XDA abstracts stuff already for you on tensorflow). At the end, "all" I see happening in the near future will be * ISA extensions to have accelerators similar to the ones we have for Crypto/RNG and especially vectorization (crossbar matrix multipliers <3 ) * custom chips being made using the standard custom/semicustom design flows, just including memristive and maybe neuromorphic cells * maybe something akin to FPGA programming, especially since intel might be integrating their new Altera into consumer devices https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-completes-acquisition-of-altera/ https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-completes-acq...
godelmachine 8y ago
Which is the most plausible application of neuromorphic memristive system that has the potential to reach the mass market with minimal hassles?
- igorkraw 8y ago
  The one I'm working on for my PhD thesis ;-) No seriously? These guys here with their DVS: https://inivation.com/ https://inivation.com/ They are already on the market. It's not compute, but it is an awesomely HDR,low latency image sensor which gets you a motion gradient for free. Downside is no colour and no static images, but as a supplementary chip for stabilzation, for robotics or low power "wake up" camera and all those applications it is in my opinion already worth considering, and if the software and algorithmic side of image processing catches up to event stream based sensor data this will be quite awesome. Disclaimer: I'm acquainted with some of the people who worked on this and think they are all quite lovely people, so might be biased.

kurtisc 8y ago

Beyond replacing current transistor logic, I find it theoretically pleasing that memristors fill the gap to complete the linking of current, voltage, charge, and flux with the existing 3 fundamental passive devices. What would basic circuit analysis lessons look like 10 years after they become commonplace?

twtw 8y ago
> What would basic circuit analysis lessons look like 10 years after they become commonplace? Exactly the same as they do now. Memristors aren't linear time-invariant, so it's extremely unlikely that they would show up in a basic circuit analysis lesson.
- contoraria 8y ago
  Not even inductors or caps are in a basic circuit analysis course. But this quadriga of passive components was at least mentioned in the very beginning of the first ee semester, components class which focused the physical effects (and was notoriously hard).

coldtea 8y ago

The "future" should be in quotes. Articles have been selling these BS for 20 years now --- and we're gonna get the same articles for the next 30 years at least....