4 ms·

I know I'm not normal about this, but I can't use a Linux/Windows laptop without physical mouse-buttons on the touchpad. This is actually the only reason I did

by nfoz 9y ago

I know I'm not normal about this, but I can't use a Linux/Windows laptop without physical mouse-buttons on the touchpad. This is actually the only reason I didn't buy a Librem13. Apple's touchpad is better than the other OS's at least in part because the software driver is smarter. I think Purism themselves were working to improve the linux driver so there's hope on that front. I read Apple's touchpad-driver source-code about 10 years ago, which was available to read under some OpenDarwin apple license. It was pretty neat. IIRC they draw a perfect circle from the center of the touchpad, radius extending to the top and bottom. Any time there's a keypress on the keyboard, within a small time-delay, any mouse motion outside of the circle is discarded. Brilliant! In comparison, the Linux and Windows drivers of the day would typically just say: within some larger(!) time-delay of a keypress, discard ALL touchpad motion. Which is noticeably more frustrating -- you had no way to reliably move the cursor at all while typing. In any case, Macbooks were less enjoyable to me when they removed the physical button, but their driver is still ahead enough that it's not so bad to use, and their UI requires somewhat less right-clicking than I need especially on Linux. But for Linux usage I require precise left and right clicks which I can only get from real buttons. I'm currently using a Dell Latitude 7380. The touchpad is great with real buttons :) But hilariously, I found (and taught them about) a bug with their keyboard firmware causing me frequent typoes, which affects all XPS 13 and Latitude 7xxx laptops. Last month they issued a BIOS update to fix it, specifically for the Latitude series. But if you have an XPS 13, I think they have not provided a fix yet, so you are probably running into typoes that are not your fault!

nfoz 9y ago
I suppose I shouldn't leave on a cliffhanger, even if it's off-topic. If you have a Dell XPS 13, try the following in any editor: 1. Type the letter "k". 2. At virtually the same time, type the letters "o" and "k". Press them at basically the same time except so that the "o" is first before the "k". You should expect to see "kok", but if you encounter the bug then you'll just have "ko". This problem is for any two keys on the keyboard, if typed in that "A, BA" pattern. Let me know if you have the bug! If it's not solved in the latest BIOS, then Dell probably needs a kick-in-the-pants from a real XPS13 owner to solve it (even though I tried my best to convince them that it has the same bug as the Latitude 7xxx, which is basically the business-equivalent but with my beloved touchpad buttons).
- floatboth 9y ago
  Sounds kinda like blocking, common in cheap crappy keyboards. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting This is usually done for a reason (namely, terrible keyboard hardware).
- heywire 9y ago
  Just to add a data point, I recently bought a Latitude 7370 (refurbished from eBay), and it does not seem to have this issue (BIOS 1.7.4). And now that I look at this version on Dell's site, it looks like I really need to update! Side note: If you're looking for a laptop like the XPS13, under $500, and don't need as much processing power, check eBay. The refurbisher I purchased from seems to have lots of these, and may take offers. I got one with 3200x1800 QHD+ matte touch screen, m7-6Y75 CPU, 16GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $475 shipped in the US. The service tag says it was in use almost exactly one year, and it looks brand new. I've only had it a few weeks, but so far my only complaint is that the battery life could be better (seeing ~4h average).
  - heywire 9y ago
    So, after updating the bios to the one released Feb 2018 (1.15.3), I can reproduce this issue, but only about once every ten or so attempts. Hopefully I didn't just start a nightmare :) BTW, if I had to guess, BIOS 1.8.3 sounds like it probably introduced the issue: - Resolved internal keyboard double letters issue.
- jhasse 9y ago
  I have this bug! I've read that in Dell's support forum that there's a firmware fix for it coming in the next months: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-13-9370-Keyboard-Skips-Button-Presses/m-p/6063181/highlight/true#M9852 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-13-9370-Keyboard-Skip...
mmrezaie 9y ago
interesting. This was the main reason I sent back my XPS 15. I had this problem especially in hjkl keys since I use emacs devil mode and my cursor was just jumping all over the place all of a sudden. This problem and the coil whine, but when I returned they didn't mention others have the same problem.
loup-vaillant 9y ago
> I can't use a Linux/Windows laptop without physical mouse-buttons on the touchpad. This is actually the only reason I didn't buy a Librem13. I have the same laptop (different colour, different branding, same hardware). It has a physical button, hidden at the bottom of the trackpad area. It has all the haptic feedback of a mouse click, and it distinguishes left and right clicks. You can also left click with a finger, then drag with the other (I've just tested). The physical buttons you're asking for are there. They're just not visible.

by nfoz 9y ago

nfoz 9y ago

I suppose I shouldn't leave on a cliffhanger, even if it's off-topic. If you have a Dell XPS 13, try the following in any editor: 1. Type the letter "k". 2. At virtually the same time, type the letters "o" and "k". Press them at basically the same time except so that the "o" is first before the "k". You should expect to see "kok", but if you encounter the bug then you'll just have "ko". This problem is for any two keys on the keyboard, if typed in that "A, BA" pattern. Let me know if you have the bug! If it's not solved in the latest BIOS, then Dell probably needs a kick-in-the-pants from a real XPS13 owner to solve it (even though I tried my best to convince them that it has the same bug as the Latitude 7xxx, which is basically the business-equivalent but with my beloved touchpad buttons).

floatboth 9y ago
Sounds kinda like blocking, common in cheap crappy keyboards. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting This is usually done for a reason (namely, terrible keyboard hardware).
heywire 9y ago
Just to add a data point, I recently bought a Latitude 7370 (refurbished from eBay), and it does not seem to have this issue (BIOS 1.7.4). And now that I look at this version on Dell's site, it looks like I really need to update! Side note: If you're looking for a laptop like the XPS13, under $500, and don't need as much processing power, check eBay. The refurbisher I purchased from seems to have lots of these, and may take offers. I got one with 3200x1800 QHD+ matte touch screen, m7-6Y75 CPU, 16GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $475 shipped in the US. The service tag says it was in use almost exactly one year, and it looks brand new. I've only had it a few weeks, but so far my only complaint is that the battery life could be better (seeing ~4h average).
- heywire 9y ago
  So, after updating the bios to the one released Feb 2018 (1.15.3), I can reproduce this issue, but only about once every ten or so attempts. Hopefully I didn't just start a nightmare :) BTW, if I had to guess, BIOS 1.8.3 sounds like it probably introduced the issue: - Resolved internal keyboard double letters issue.
jhasse 9y ago
I have this bug! I've read that in Dell's support forum that there's a firmware fix for it coming in the next months: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-13-9370-Keyboard-Skips-Button-Presses/m-p/6063181/highlight/true#M9852 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-13-9370-Keyboard-Skip...

mmrezaie 9y ago

interesting. This was the main reason I sent back my XPS 15. I had this problem especially in hjkl keys since I use emacs devil mode and my cursor was just jumping all over the place all of a sudden. This problem and the coil whine, but when I returned they didn't mention others have the same problem.

loup-vaillant 9y ago

> I can't use a Linux/Windows laptop without physical mouse-buttons on the touchpad. This is actually the only reason I didn't buy a Librem13. I have the same laptop (different colour, different branding, same hardware). It has a physical button, hidden at the bottom of the trackpad area. It has all the haptic feedback of a mouse click, and it distinguishes left and right clicks. You can also left click with a finger, then drag with the other (I've just tested). The physical buttons you're asking for are there. They're just not visible.