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Having witnessed many cases of individuals who help the poor, donate to cancer/heart patients and then turn on a dime and advocate the carpet bombing of rebel h

by hliyan 9y ago

Having witnessed many cases of individuals who help the poor, donate to cancer/heart patients and then turn on a dime and advocate the carpet bombing of rebel held civilian areas, I'm starting to feel empathy is not the issue. The empathy circuits are intact in most human beings. The problem is dehumanization. Empathy is proportional to how "human" we perceive someone/something to be. We experience the most empathy for close family, friends and individuals we have met in person. As the distance grows the empathy response reduces. It further reduces if the victims are portrayed as uncivilized or savage. It further reduces when the victims are numerous (hundreds of thousands).

nils-m-holm 9y ago
In addition to dehumanization, which is a huge problem, there are also people who just want to be perceived as being empathic and charitable. There is a couple in my neighborhood that makes a big point out of helping people in poor countries, sending toys to their children on Christmas, hosting all kinds of charity events, etc, but on a personal level, they behave like the numbest troglodytes and could not care less about anybody's needs. In some people, empathy is a carefully crafted facade without any substance behind it, which might also be a reason why they are in favor of carpet bombing.
- gxs 9y ago
  You know, I’ve always felt that the Bay Area, ironically, has a disproportionate number of these people. I’m from LA, but live here in the bay, and people often will tell me how fake Angelinos are. For my perspective, people in LA might be ostensibly more superficial, but at least it’s authentic and in general people don’t try to hide it. Contrast to the Bay Area, it seeems like having a cause is trendy here, which is superficial in its own way. I went to cal and ended up staying for friends/work so don’t get me wrong, I love it here. But like all places, it has it’s own nuances.
lsd5you 9y ago
I would disagree. The problem is the unnatural, ever expanding range of concern for the entire human population as it increases and as things globalise. We in general get no additional happiness from remote billions of people and only added risks and concerns. It is hardly surprising that the natural empathy capacity is being exceeded. Worse the limited amount we do have is manipulated. As remote concerns are selectively beamed into our consciousness via the media.
- hliyan 9y ago
  I once had this thought myself. Our brains evolved to deal with social grouping of a few dozen individuals at most. Now it's being heavily taxed -- not only do we have to remember and deal with hundreds of individuals, we're no longer just comparing ourselves against others in our tribe/village, but the entire world. And the amount of rules and social conventions that need to be followed are numerous, and the pace of society is breakneck. I'd like to see a study done to see if this is the cause of the rising levels of mental health issues (or is it just more and more diagnoses)? Whenever I hear a report of someone shooting, stabbing or driving a vehicle into random strangers, I wonder whether it is someone who's been broken by the size, speed and complexity of modern life.
hliyan 9y ago
I serendipitously came across this example just now: https://twitter.com/abhishek_mshra/status/987275672543358976 https://twitter.com/abhishek_mshra/status/987275672543358976 "Cancelled @Olacabs Booking because Driver was Muslim. I don't want to give my money to Jihadi People." Most of the replies in the subsequent thread is in support of the original poster.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Wow what a racist prick.
byteface 9y ago
I agree to this as people are duty bound. In moral philosophy, it's argued by some that obligation is of higher moral value than pure empathy, as you don't emotionally feel anything but do what is your duty. Most people adhere to rule based ethics in which the law is imperative. But Law paves the way for carpet bombing within a framework of ethics. Bombing the rule breakers. As for family relation stuff this is called the Price equation. For me empathy is just a form of guilt. So still relates to the self. You don't do bad as you don't want to feel guilty. I therefore constantly have to learn right from wrong on a social or interpersonal level. But I think some people may experience it differently. Those who lack these Lamarkian tools are defined as sociopathic, but it can be expedient. Napolean would be a good character to debate on this topic.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
creep 9y ago
To expand on this, you are likely to do favors for people you know even if it will harm other groups. This happens a lot. There are conspiracy theories galore about big governments and their level of organization to keep the populace out-of-the-loop, but I think it just comes down to rich people who know each other and help each other out at the expense of out-groups. It's an organic process, and not really organized in a strict sense. The Clinton foundation is a good example of this (watch the Clinton Cash documentary).

by hliyan 9y ago

nils-m-holm 9y ago

In addition to dehumanization, which is a huge problem, there are also people who just want to be perceived as being empathic and charitable. There is a couple in my neighborhood that makes a big point out of helping people in poor countries, sending toys to their children on Christmas, hosting all kinds of charity events, etc, but on a personal level, they behave like the numbest troglodytes and could not care less about anybody's needs. In some people, empathy is a carefully crafted facade without any substance behind it, which might also be a reason why they are in favor of carpet bombing.

gxs 9y ago
You know, I’ve always felt that the Bay Area, ironically, has a disproportionate number of these people. I’m from LA, but live here in the bay, and people often will tell me how fake Angelinos are. For my perspective, people in LA might be ostensibly more superficial, but at least it’s authentic and in general people don’t try to hide it. Contrast to the Bay Area, it seeems like having a cause is trendy here, which is superficial in its own way. I went to cal and ended up staying for friends/work so don’t get me wrong, I love it here. But like all places, it has it’s own nuances.

lsd5you 9y ago

I would disagree. The problem is the unnatural, ever expanding range of concern for the entire human population as it increases and as things globalise. We in general get no additional happiness from remote billions of people and only added risks and concerns. It is hardly surprising that the natural empathy capacity is being exceeded. Worse the limited amount we do have is manipulated. As remote concerns are selectively beamed into our consciousness via the media.

hliyan 9y ago
I once had this thought myself. Our brains evolved to deal with social grouping of a few dozen individuals at most. Now it's being heavily taxed -- not only do we have to remember and deal with hundreds of individuals, we're no longer just comparing ourselves against others in our tribe/village, but the entire world. And the amount of rules and social conventions that need to be followed are numerous, and the pace of society is breakneck. I'd like to see a study done to see if this is the cause of the rising levels of mental health issues (or is it just more and more diagnoses)? Whenever I hear a report of someone shooting, stabbing or driving a vehicle into random strangers, I wonder whether it is someone who's been broken by the size, speed and complexity of modern life.

hliyan 9y ago

I serendipitously came across this example just now: https://twitter.com/abhishek_mshra/status/987275672543358976 https://twitter.com/abhishek_mshra/status/987275672543358976 "Cancelled @Olacabs Booking because Driver was Muslim. I don't want to give my money to Jihadi People." Most of the replies in the subsequent thread is in support of the original poster.

craftyguy 9y ago
Wow what a racist prick.

byteface 9y ago

I agree to this as people are duty bound. In moral philosophy, it's argued by some that obligation is of higher moral value than pure empathy, as you don't emotionally feel anything but do what is your duty. Most people adhere to rule based ethics in which the law is imperative. But Law paves the way for carpet bombing within a framework of ethics. Bombing the rule breakers. As for family relation stuff this is called the Price equation. For me empathy is just a form of guilt. So still relates to the self. You don't do bad as you don't want to feel guilty. I therefore constantly have to learn right from wrong on a social or interpersonal level. But I think some people may experience it differently. Those who lack these Lamarkian tools are defined as sociopathic, but it can be expedient. Napolean would be a good character to debate on this topic.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

creep 9y ago

To expand on this, you are likely to do favors for people you know even if it will harm other groups. This happens a lot. There are conspiracy theories galore about big governments and their level of organization to keep the populace out-of-the-loop, but I think it just comes down to rich people who know each other and help each other out at the expense of out-groups. It's an organic process, and not really organized in a strict sense. The Clinton foundation is a good example of this (watch the Clinton Cash documentary).