5 ms·

Each individual person might be better off having that choice, true. But setting up a system where this is an option, leads to a society where those people mig

Each individual person might be better off having that choice, true. But setting up a system where this is an option, leads to a society where those people might not have the option of not submitting to experimentation.

darawk 9y ago
How exactly would that come about?
- macintux 9y ago
  Peer pressure? Family pressure? "If you loved your family, you would do this for them." The U.S. government keeps trying to force people in poverty to make harder decisions to be able to use the safety net. Is it so hard to imagine that someday one of the requirements would be subjecting yourself to experimental tests? Those are just two ideas off the top of my head. I'm not a fan of slippery slope arguments, but this does seem like a Pandora's box worth looking very carefully at before opening.
  - darawk 9y ago
    So, poor people shouldn't have the option to do this, because if you give them the choice, someday a republican might make it a requirement of welfare? That seems like a bit of a silly argument.
    - macintux 9y ago
      Was the point of this discussion to discuss why people may be concerned about unintended consequences or to blithely assert omniscience? Maybe I just picked the wrong thread.
      - darawk 9y ago
        If all you're saying is that people could theoretically be concerned about that, then sure I agree. I just think the concern is misplaced.
- level3 9y ago
  Legalizing human experimentation in this manner would result in it being counted as employment (e.g. for tax purposes). Meanwhile, unemployed people risk losing their benefits if they refuse a job offer. So depending on how these jobs are treated, an employment agency might put you in a position where you may not be able to refuse.
  - darawk 9y ago
    This is completely accounted for in the current law: https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/refuse-job-offer-collect-unemployment-insurance-ui-benefits.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/refuse-job-offer...
- Regardsyjc 9y ago
  It's the same reason you can't buy a kidney in most countries. As soon as you make it possible to buy life, you can create a system that exploits the poor. E.G: I was watching an episode on kidney trade (Netflix TV show The Traffickers) and a man was duped into selling his kidney. He expected more but only received less than $300. There might have been complications with his operation because now he has pain that he will have to deal with his entire life. I'm not sure if he actually understood the risk of this entire thing. And he has also been ostracized from his community. This system of organ trade, even though it is illegal, has become so bad that it's like a human pyramid scheme. They recruit one person to sell their kidney and every time that person gets someone else to sell a kidney, they take a cut. Pretty terrible stuff.
  - darawk 9y ago
    The perfect example. The kidney market is, in fact, the exact reason for my opinion on this issue. Kidney markets are a wonderful thing, the fact that they are illegal in every country except Iran is an absolute tragedy. > I was watching an episode on kidney trade (Netflix TV show The Traffickers) and a man was duped into selling his kidney. He expected more but only received less than $300. That's just fraud. A man was deceived. We have laws for dealing with that. > There might have been complications with his operation because now he has pain that he will have to deal with his entire life. I'm not sure if he actually understood the risk of this entire thing. Exactly the sorts of issues that bringing such a market out from underground would resolve. > And he has also been ostracized from his community That doesn't even make sense, and if it's true, then it says more about the community than it does kidney markets. > . This system of organ trade, even though it is illegal, has become so bad that it's like a human pyramid scheme. They recruit one person to sell their kidney and every time that person gets someone else to sell a kidney, they take a cut. Pretty terrible stuff. Is it more terrible than any other pyramid scheme? If you think there's fraud or deception going on, sure that's terrible. But giving people the right to sell themselves is not inherently terrible. Here, read this: https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/need-a-kidney-not-iranian-youll-wait/ https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/need-a-kidn...
    - 9y ago

darawk 9y ago

How exactly would that come about?

macintux 9y ago
Peer pressure? Family pressure? "If you loved your family, you would do this for them." The U.S. government keeps trying to force people in poverty to make harder decisions to be able to use the safety net. Is it so hard to imagine that someday one of the requirements would be subjecting yourself to experimental tests? Those are just two ideas off the top of my head. I'm not a fan of slippery slope arguments, but this does seem like a Pandora's box worth looking very carefully at before opening.
- darawk 9y ago
  So, poor people shouldn't have the option to do this, because if you give them the choice, someday a republican might make it a requirement of welfare? That seems like a bit of a silly argument.
  - macintux 9y ago
    Was the point of this discussion to discuss why people may be concerned about unintended consequences or to blithely assert omniscience? Maybe I just picked the wrong thread.
    - darawk 9y ago
      If all you're saying is that people could theoretically be concerned about that, then sure I agree. I just think the concern is misplaced.
level3 9y ago
Legalizing human experimentation in this manner would result in it being counted as employment (e.g. for tax purposes). Meanwhile, unemployed people risk losing their benefits if they refuse a job offer. So depending on how these jobs are treated, an employment agency might put you in a position where you may not be able to refuse.
- darawk 9y ago
  This is completely accounted for in the current law: https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/refuse-job-offer-collect-unemployment-insurance-ui-benefits.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/refuse-job-offer...
Regardsyjc 9y ago
It's the same reason you can't buy a kidney in most countries. As soon as you make it possible to buy life, you can create a system that exploits the poor. E.G: I was watching an episode on kidney trade (Netflix TV show The Traffickers) and a man was duped into selling his kidney. He expected more but only received less than $300. There might have been complications with his operation because now he has pain that he will have to deal with his entire life. I'm not sure if he actually understood the risk of this entire thing. And he has also been ostracized from his community. This system of organ trade, even though it is illegal, has become so bad that it's like a human pyramid scheme. They recruit one person to sell their kidney and every time that person gets someone else to sell a kidney, they take a cut. Pretty terrible stuff.
- darawk 9y ago
  The perfect example. The kidney market is, in fact, the exact reason for my opinion on this issue. Kidney markets are a wonderful thing, the fact that they are illegal in every country except Iran is an absolute tragedy. > I was watching an episode on kidney trade (Netflix TV show The Traffickers) and a man was duped into selling his kidney. He expected more but only received less than $300. That's just fraud. A man was deceived. We have laws for dealing with that. > There might have been complications with his operation because now he has pain that he will have to deal with his entire life. I'm not sure if he actually understood the risk of this entire thing. Exactly the sorts of issues that bringing such a market out from underground would resolve. > And he has also been ostracized from his community That doesn't even make sense, and if it's true, then it says more about the community than it does kidney markets. > . This system of organ trade, even though it is illegal, has become so bad that it's like a human pyramid scheme. They recruit one person to sell their kidney and every time that person gets someone else to sell a kidney, they take a cut. Pretty terrible stuff. Is it more terrible than any other pyramid scheme? If you think there's fraud or deception going on, sure that's terrible. But giving people the right to sell themselves is not inherently terrible. Here, read this: https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/need-a-kidney-not-iranian-youll-wait/ https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/need-a-kidn...
  - 9y ago