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Fun to see how bitcoin has come full circle in reinventing everything its cheerleaders initially railed against: fraud, then centralization, regulation, and now

Fun to see how bitcoin has come full circle in reinventing everything its cheerleaders initially railed against: fraud, then centralization, regulation, and now “censorship”. I guess the lesson here should be about the primacy of law, and how you won’t succeed in using technology to undermine it.

olliej 9y ago
The problem I suspect is that a are real company (eg incorporated legal presence - not dismissing other companies, just distinguishing them as things that have government identity), and so must abide by the laws set by their host country (USA), and the policies of banking corps, etc that they interact with. Assuming they need a bank (liquidity, etc) they need to follow their bank’s rules. Given all us banks hammering WL it would be unsurprising if they were pressured to do that. That said I despise Wikileaks for a number of reasons, but don’t feel like starting the firestorm that is arguing about them in a comment forum :)
sp527 9y ago
> I guess the lesson here should be about the primacy of law, and how you won’t succeed in using technology to undermine it. What? I think the lesson is that centralization and regulation are necessary to prevent undesirable outcomes amongst large groups of people. That's literally the reason we invented governments... Sure governments are fallible, but they're still a more effective tool in ensuring stability than most other paradigms we can think of (and certainly more so than anarchy).
roywiggins 9y ago
It's not really Bitcoin's fault that people are using Coinbase. But the fact is, there's always a price to decentralization. Centralized services are fast and can be cheaper! It's not a huge surprise that something that seems bulky and annoying to deal with has sprouted companies like Coinbase.
- wybiral 9y ago
  How do you convert non-bitcoin currency into bitcoin without a trusted entity? If masses are expected to do so then there will likely be a sort of centralized "trusted few".
sneak 9y ago
Coinbase is not bitcoin.
bdcravens 9y ago
This is a Bitcoin service provider, not Bitcoin, in the same way that Paypal!=USD.
contingencies 9y ago
Don't be so defeatist. You can realistically sidestep law a few ways, eg. (1) by being fervently multi-jurisdiction (2) by being transparent and high-profile and community-popular enough ("think of the children!") to resist attempts at regulation (3) by throwing the dog a bone (ie. making it profitable for a jurisdiction not to legislate against you or interfere) (4) by being nominally jurisdictionless (ie. darknet only) Morally and progressively speaking, I suppose the last is the superior option. Unfortunately, it doesn't allow banking integration, so speed of settlement, scaling and trust become challenges. Hacker quest: solve them and win big money.
- matt4077 9y ago
  I was being triumphant rather than defeatist. I believe democratically enacted laws are far better than power being exerted by those with technological might against those without.
  - contingencies 9y ago
    Why yes - democracy in the idealistic sense and anarchism in the free sense are not so dissimilar. Such a pity about the small reality of human behavior!

olliej 9y ago

The problem I suspect is that a are real company (eg incorporated legal presence - not dismissing other companies, just distinguishing them as things that have government identity), and so must abide by the laws set by their host country (USA), and the policies of banking corps, etc that they interact with. Assuming they need a bank (liquidity, etc) they need to follow their bank’s rules. Given all us banks hammering WL it would be unsurprising if they were pressured to do that. That said I despise Wikileaks for a number of reasons, but don’t feel like starting the firestorm that is arguing about them in a comment forum :)

sp527 9y ago

> I guess the lesson here should be about the primacy of law, and how you won’t succeed in using technology to undermine it. What? I think the lesson is that centralization and regulation are necessary to prevent undesirable outcomes amongst large groups of people. That's literally the reason we invented governments... Sure governments are fallible, but they're still a more effective tool in ensuring stability than most other paradigms we can think of (and certainly more so than anarchy).

roywiggins 9y ago

It's not really Bitcoin's fault that people are using Coinbase. But the fact is, there's always a price to decentralization. Centralized services are fast and can be cheaper! It's not a huge surprise that something that seems bulky and annoying to deal with has sprouted companies like Coinbase.

wybiral 9y ago
How do you convert non-bitcoin currency into bitcoin without a trusted entity? If masses are expected to do so then there will likely be a sort of centralized "trusted few".

sneak 9y ago

Coinbase is not bitcoin.

bdcravens 9y ago

This is a Bitcoin service provider, not Bitcoin, in the same way that Paypal!=USD.

contingencies 9y ago

Don't be so defeatist. You can realistically sidestep law a few ways, eg. (1) by being fervently multi-jurisdiction (2) by being transparent and high-profile and community-popular enough ("think of the children!") to resist attempts at regulation (3) by throwing the dog a bone (ie. making it profitable for a jurisdiction not to legislate against you or interfere) (4) by being nominally jurisdictionless (ie. darknet only) Morally and progressively speaking, I suppose the last is the superior option. Unfortunately, it doesn't allow banking integration, so speed of settlement, scaling and trust become challenges. Hacker quest: solve them and win big money.

matt4077 9y ago
I was being triumphant rather than defeatist. I believe democratically enacted laws are far better than power being exerted by those with technological might against those without.
- contingencies 9y ago
  Why yes - democracy in the idealistic sense and anarchism in the free sense are not so dissimilar. Such a pity about the small reality of human behavior!