5 ms·

Ironically applied to not-good hearts

truculation 8y ago
In another sense, 'Goodhart' seems like a splendid cosmic coincidence. Instead of obsessing over targets, try to perceive the whole system. And who can do that? Good-hearted individuals.
mjfl 8y ago
"These doctors are vile dogs. If I was a physician I would take all the hard patients, heal them all, and be a hero of the people." Yeah, if you were given one operation where the patient has a 100% chance of dying without it, but 80% of you killing them if you operate + 20% chance of them living after, maybe you'd do this once and get lucky. But try doing this twice, you have a a 96% chance of killing a patient, three times makes a 99.2% chance of killing at least a single patient. This probability quickly approaches 100%. If you kill a patient you get dragged into court, branded as a murderer by the opposing lawyer, and your career which you have spent your youth, your 20s and a half a million dollars training for is down the drain. Taking risky cases, if that's not your niche, is is guaranteed to have you out of a job and in debt from legal fees. To suggest that "bad hearts" are involved in this necessary calculation, is incredibly naive.
- smnrchrds 8y ago
  I am pretty sure that the parent was referring to the fact that this article is about heart surgeries. Bad heart is used in the same manner as a bad knee or a bad tooth. It refers to the patient not the doctor. But aside from that, I completely disagree with your comment. The approach you are defending, even if legal, is completely unethical and immoral. It should be something we chastise, not condone.
  - mjfl 8y ago
    Well I think you're an idiot. There's only one viable "approach", determined by the laws of probability I described above. You can try to shame people into doing actions that would ultimately get them fired and sued, but you're only going to look like a self-righteous asshole and nothing will happen.
    - jlebar 8y ago
      Hey, this is a little too ad hom...
      - mjfl 8y ago
        Sorry. Touches a nerve with me when people moralize what they do not understand.
- point78 8y ago
  Yet another reason (among many) the US is such a backwards country.
- Retric 8y ago
  People die in surgery all the time, it's not nearly as big a deal for the surgeon as you're suggesting. ~5% chance of death within 30 days per major hart surgery means the average surgeon is losing several people in an average year.

In another sense, 'Goodhart' seems like a splendid cosmic coincidence. Instead of obsessing over targets, try to perceive the whole system. And who can do that? Good-hearted individuals.

mjfl 8y ago

"These doctors are vile dogs. If I was a physician I would take all the hard patients, heal them all, and be a hero of the people." Yeah, if you were given one operation where the patient has a 100% chance of dying without it, but 80% of you killing them if you operate + 20% chance of them living after, maybe you'd do this once and get lucky. But try doing this twice, you have a a 96% chance of killing a patient, three times makes a 99.2% chance of killing at least a single patient. This probability quickly approaches 100%. If you kill a patient you get dragged into court, branded as a murderer by the opposing lawyer, and your career which you have spent your youth, your 20s and a half a million dollars training for is down the drain. Taking risky cases, if that's not your niche, is is guaranteed to have you out of a job and in debt from legal fees. To suggest that "bad hearts" are involved in this necessary calculation, is incredibly naive.

smnrchrds 8y ago
I am pretty sure that the parent was referring to the fact that this article is about heart surgeries. Bad heart is used in the same manner as a bad knee or a bad tooth. It refers to the patient not the doctor. But aside from that, I completely disagree with your comment. The approach you are defending, even if legal, is completely unethical and immoral. It should be something we chastise, not condone.
- mjfl 8y ago
  Well I think you're an idiot. There's only one viable "approach", determined by the laws of probability I described above. You can try to shame people into doing actions that would ultimately get them fired and sued, but you're only going to look like a self-righteous asshole and nothing will happen.
  - jlebar 8y ago
    Hey, this is a little too ad hom...
    - mjfl 8y ago
      Sorry. Touches a nerve with me when people moralize what they do not understand.
point78 8y ago
Yet another reason (among many) the US is such a backwards country.
Retric 8y ago
People die in surgery all the time, it's not nearly as big a deal for the surgeon as you're suggesting. ~5% chance of death within 30 days per major hart surgery means the average surgeon is losing several people in an average year.