6 ms·

Don't tell me why Scrum sucks. That's really not useful to me. Show me a better system instead.

by nulagrithom 8y ago

afterburner 8y ago
Regardless of system, you still need good quality managers.
- mmcnl 8y ago
  In the case of scrum, the role of the Product Owner is extremely important. In theory, the PO should have both a solid background in product development and business development so that the backlog can be correctly prioritized, in order to make sure that the development team can keep on working on the right stuff without discussions. In practice this is rarely the case and the PO often is just some non-technical person that is assigned to do stakeholder management, which puts additional stress on the team, contrary to the goal of keeping stress away from the team.
prepend 8y ago
“You don’t understand man. Everything sucks and people don’t get it. Step 1) destroy. Step 2) repeat step 1.”
teknologist 8y ago
Hire better, more responsible engineers then you won't need a passively micro-managing set of processes to get things done.
- nadezhda18 8y ago
  feels like you have not yet had problems with bad management. Bad management can drive into the ground even a great team with very responsible engineers. They will try to fight the restrictions, burn out, and then simply give up by quitting. This is the story that keeps unfolding again and again in front my own eyes at my work, alas.
  - teknologist 8y ago
    I've experienced plenty of bad management just like that which you described. These managers always seemed to be reacting to having to work with a pool of untrusted incompetents they couldn't get rid of for whatever reason. It all comes down to hiring - even bad managers ease up their control as trust increases.
kthejoker2 8y ago
What, you didn't notice the super unsubtle advocacy of Agile at the end?
- bitwize 8y ago
  Isn't Scrum Agile? Agile in corporate parlance usually means "Scrum or XP", and since XP appears to have fallen out of favor, "We are an Agile shop" means "we employ Scrum or at least intend/pretend to".
  - pseudalopex 8y ago
    The author refers to the Agile Manifesto, not corporate parlance.
bassman9000 8y ago
How did you get work done before Scrum?
newscracker 8y ago
Use an iterative waterfall with shorter iterations, and keep the process overhead very low (have peer reviews, version control, automated testing, etc.). Beyond that, you need to have a good team, you need to trust the team, and you need to have good management. These are not easy, and no kind of process can solve issues with these.
user5994461 8y ago
Call it Kanban, it's exactly the same thing but without all the certifications and consulting services around it. https://thehftguy.com/2017/12/06/scrum-vs-kanban-arent-they-the-same-thing/ https://thehftguy.com/2017/12/06/scrum-vs-kanban-arent-they-...
- wry_discontent 8y ago
  I moved to an organization using Kanban about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I'd been doing scrum for years and had a lot of complaints similar to the author. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but overall it seems like a bad system. We work by having an engineering manager work out requirements with a product owner, and my manager just comes and asks me how things are going and when they're going to be done. Often times, my estimations are off, but some of that is just expected. Honestly, I'm very happy with it and I've never felt like I was doing better work.
- richliss 8y ago
  You're incorrect. Scrum is a framework. Kanban is a method of implementing a system. Here's Kanban creator David J. Andersen's own words: http://www.scrumcrazy.com/David+Andersen+-+There+is+no+kanban+process+for+software+development http://www.scrumcrazy.com/David+Andersen+-+There+is+no+kanba.... Also Kanban has certification: http://leankanban.com/team-kanban/ http://leankanban.com/team-kanban/ And consulting services around it: http://leankanban.com/project/services/ http://leankanban.com/project/services/
  - user5994461 8y ago
    They're both a basic TODO list with a fancy commercial name.
amai 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban works since 1947 at Toyota.
- richliss 8y ago
  That's not the same Kanban as used in Software Development. This is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban_(development) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban_(development) Since 2005ish. About 10 years after Scrum was formalised at OOPSLA 95'

Don't tell me why Scrum sucks. That's really not useful to me. Show me a better system instead.

afterburner 8y ago

Regardless of system, you still need good quality managers.

mmcnl 8y ago
In the case of scrum, the role of the Product Owner is extremely important. In theory, the PO should have both a solid background in product development and business development so that the backlog can be correctly prioritized, in order to make sure that the development team can keep on working on the right stuff without discussions. In practice this is rarely the case and the PO often is just some non-technical person that is assigned to do stakeholder management, which puts additional stress on the team, contrary to the goal of keeping stress away from the team.

prepend 8y ago

“You don’t understand man. Everything sucks and people don’t get it. Step 1) destroy. Step 2) repeat step 1.”

teknologist 8y ago

Hire better, more responsible engineers then you won't need a passively micro-managing set of processes to get things done.

nadezhda18 8y ago
feels like you have not yet had problems with bad management. Bad management can drive into the ground even a great team with very responsible engineers. They will try to fight the restrictions, burn out, and then simply give up by quitting. This is the story that keeps unfolding again and again in front my own eyes at my work, alas.
- teknologist 8y ago
  I've experienced plenty of bad management just like that which you described. These managers always seemed to be reacting to having to work with a pool of untrusted incompetents they couldn't get rid of for whatever reason. It all comes down to hiring - even bad managers ease up their control as trust increases.

kthejoker2 8y ago

What, you didn't notice the super unsubtle advocacy of Agile at the end?

bitwize 8y ago
Isn't Scrum Agile? Agile in corporate parlance usually means "Scrum or XP", and since XP appears to have fallen out of favor, "We are an Agile shop" means "we employ Scrum or at least intend/pretend to".
- pseudalopex 8y ago
  The author refers to the Agile Manifesto, not corporate parlance.

bassman9000 8y ago

How did you get work done before Scrum?

newscracker 8y ago

Use an iterative waterfall with shorter iterations, and keep the process overhead very low (have peer reviews, version control, automated testing, etc.). Beyond that, you need to have a good team, you need to trust the team, and you need to have good management. These are not easy, and no kind of process can solve issues with these.

user5994461 8y ago

Call it Kanban, it's exactly the same thing but without all the certifications and consulting services around it. https://thehftguy.com/2017/12/06/scrum-vs-kanban-arent-they-the-same-thing/ https://thehftguy.com/2017/12/06/scrum-vs-kanban-arent-they-...

wry_discontent 8y ago
I moved to an organization using Kanban about a year ago and couldn't be happier. I'd been doing scrum for years and had a lot of complaints similar to the author. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but overall it seems like a bad system. We work by having an engineering manager work out requirements with a product owner, and my manager just comes and asks me how things are going and when they're going to be done. Often times, my estimations are off, but some of that is just expected. Honestly, I'm very happy with it and I've never felt like I was doing better work.
richliss 8y ago
You're incorrect. Scrum is a framework. Kanban is a method of implementing a system. Here's Kanban creator David J. Andersen's own words: http://www.scrumcrazy.com/David+Andersen+-+There+is+no+kanban+process+for+software+development http://www.scrumcrazy.com/David+Andersen+-+There+is+no+kanba.... Also Kanban has certification: http://leankanban.com/team-kanban/ http://leankanban.com/team-kanban/ And consulting services around it: http://leankanban.com/project/services/ http://leankanban.com/project/services/
- user5994461 8y ago
  They're both a basic TODO list with a fancy commercial name.

amai 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban works since 1947 at Toyota.

richliss 8y ago
That's not the same Kanban as used in Software Development. This is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban_(development) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban_(development) Since 2005ish. About 10 years after Scrum was formalised at OOPSLA 95'