6 ms·

As a former Christian, I don't think we have any real idea what Christ (the historical figure) actually believed. For instance, I never recall learning that Chr

As a former Christian, I don't think we have any real idea what Christ (the historical figure) actually believed. For instance, I never recall learning that Christ wanted a church to be established with a Vatican, a pope, cardinals, etc. Nor did Christ say anything about going to church on Sunday. Most of the Bible is the Old Testament, which are primarily Jewish religious texts carried over from tradition, and the New Testament is a lot of writing about Christ from his disciples and later followers. But I found in my own study of the Bible that Christ was actually a fairly minor character, in terms of the volume of quotes actually directly attributed to him.

icebraining 9y ago
Christ (the historical figure) I'm not a current or ex-Christian, but except for Jehovah's Witnesses, do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? And isn't the New Testament the revealed Word of God? How could Christ-the-historical-figure have any opinions different from the ones revealed by God?
- uhuh234 9y ago
  > do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? Yes lots, they are known as Trinitarians. Those that don't believe that Jesus is God incarnate are non-Trinitarians. Without being disrespectful to those that know far more than I, this was basically (simplistically, more or less) the reason for the Schism or the Orthodox Christian Church.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Yes, I know (although I was actually asking about non-Trinitarians - sorry for the confusing formulation), but my question was if there were any "complete" non-Trinitarians left, except for Jehovah's Witnesses.
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      Unitarians.
    - neaden 9y ago
      Mormons are non trinitarian.
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    Actually I think they were all Trinitarian and agreed on the nature of Christ. The disagreement was over the origin of the Holy Spirit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
- paloaltokid 9y ago
  That's a great question and one that I'm not really qualified to answer. It's a huge theological topic, though. In my own life, I don't identify as a Christian anymore but I continue to draw inspiration from Christ's life and the few teachings I felt I could attribute directly to him. Even when I called myself a Christian, I never believed that the Bible was the literal word of God. It's just a book. When I studied for my confirmation my pastor took our group through a lot of interesting history around how the Bible was actually written and put together. There was tons of material that never made it in, so it's at best an approximation of beliefs that people who call themselves Christians have had over time. For what it's worth the history of Christianity is fascinating. There were many schisms and lots of infighting within the Church even prior to the Reformation. I suspect the same may be true within Judaism and Islam - there are "mainstream" sets of beliefs and then people on the fringe. Likely the fringe folks were more tapped in to the real mystical teachings but got shut out.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I'm not a current or ex-Christian, but except for Jehovah's Witnesses, do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? Most Christians accept Trinitarianism as a definitional requirement for Christianity, hence why theologically-precise descriptions of JW and related groups, and LDS, and some other groups that describe themselves as Christian from within mainstream Christianity use phrases like “pseudo-Christian cults”. But, yes, there are certainly groups that self describe as Christian that subscribe to heterodox (from the POV of mainstream Christianity) Christology, and JW are very much not alone there. > And isn't the New Testament the revealed Word of God? No, Jesus Christ in the Word of God. The Bible (the whole thing, not just the NT) is words about God. The NT is just the part written after Christ and which looks back on him rather than forward to him. > How could Christ-the-historical-figure have any opinions different from the ones revealed by God? The Bible, in any case, contains very little direct explication of the opinions of Jesus, and those it does have are often opinions about specific events also recounted in the Bible. Most ideas about his general opinions that have any applicability outside of the narrow events in the Bible are inferences and generalizations from the Bible (or other sources in tradition; the Bible as the sole root of Christian belief is a fairly modern innovation in theology held by a narrow subset of Christianity, which also tends to have stronger views about the literalness and factual authority of the Bible than other Christians.)

icebraining 9y ago

Christ (the historical figure) I'm not a current or ex-Christian, but except for Jehovah's Witnesses, do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? And isn't the New Testament the revealed Word of God? How could Christ-the-historical-figure have any opinions different from the ones revealed by God?

uhuh234 9y ago
> do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? Yes lots, they are known as Trinitarians. Those that don't believe that Jesus is God incarnate are non-Trinitarians. Without being disrespectful to those that know far more than I, this was basically (simplistically, more or less) the reason for the Schism or the Orthodox Christian Church.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Yes, I know (although I was actually asking about non-Trinitarians - sorry for the confusing formulation), but my question was if there were any "complete" non-Trinitarians left, except for Jehovah's Witnesses.
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    Unitarians.
  - neaden 9y ago
    Mormons are non trinitarian.
- kgwgk 9y ago
  Actually I think they were all Trinitarian and agreed on the nature of Christ. The disagreement was over the origin of the Holy Spirit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
paloaltokid 9y ago
That's a great question and one that I'm not really qualified to answer. It's a huge theological topic, though. In my own life, I don't identify as a Christian anymore but I continue to draw inspiration from Christ's life and the few teachings I felt I could attribute directly to him. Even when I called myself a Christian, I never believed that the Bible was the literal word of God. It's just a book. When I studied for my confirmation my pastor took our group through a lot of interesting history around how the Bible was actually written and put together. There was tons of material that never made it in, so it's at best an approximation of beliefs that people who call themselves Christians have had over time. For what it's worth the history of Christianity is fascinating. There were many schisms and lots of infighting within the Church even prior to the Reformation. I suspect the same may be true within Judaism and Islam - there are "mainstream" sets of beliefs and then people on the fringe. Likely the fringe folks were more tapped in to the real mystical teachings but got shut out.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> I'm not a current or ex-Christian, but except for Jehovah's Witnesses, do any current-day Christians believe that Christ is not (also) God himself? Most Christians accept Trinitarianism as a definitional requirement for Christianity, hence why theologically-precise descriptions of JW and related groups, and LDS, and some other groups that describe themselves as Christian from within mainstream Christianity use phrases like “pseudo-Christian cults”. But, yes, there are certainly groups that self describe as Christian that subscribe to heterodox (from the POV of mainstream Christianity) Christology, and JW are very much not alone there. > And isn't the New Testament the revealed Word of God? No, Jesus Christ in the Word of God. The Bible (the whole thing, not just the NT) is words about God. The NT is just the part written after Christ and which looks back on him rather than forward to him. > How could Christ-the-historical-figure have any opinions different from the ones revealed by God? The Bible, in any case, contains very little direct explication of the opinions of Jesus, and those it does have are often opinions about specific events also recounted in the Bible. Most ideas about his general opinions that have any applicability outside of the narrow events in the Bible are inferences and generalizations from the Bible (or other sources in tradition; the Bible as the sole root of Christian belief is a fairly modern innovation in theology held by a narrow subset of Christianity, which also tends to have stronger views about the literalness and factual authority of the Bible than other Christians.)