5 ms·

I have noticed this for years. I say people are not racist, homophobic, etc... People just want to gang up together and the existence of a group reaches the hei

I have noticed this for years. I say people are not racist, homophobic, etc... People just want to gang up together and the existence of a group reaches the height of its meaning (to its members) when they can say "This is us. That is them. Clearly we are different (superior). Don't mix us." Same is true when you have 10 Harvard grads with 5 "insert_your_state_university" grads in the same room. The ultimate test: Take a hispanic who hates blacks. Add a black who hates whites. Add a white who hates hispanics. Leave them stranded in the desert and they must rely on one another to survive. They will be friends in no time. When they get back to town it will be "This is us, the survivors. That is them, those who never had such an experience. Don't mix us."

iopuy 8y ago
I like your test idea but its lack in supporting evidence is stunning.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Ingroup/outgroup dynamics are actually very well studied area of sociology/evolutionary psychology. It's extremely fascinating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups
- coldtea 8y ago
  There's this thing called independent thinking. Not everything must come in pre-digested chunks of peer-reviewed journal meta-studies... (That said, there's tons of research in group dynamics, including the ideas the parent mentioned).
- ThrustVectoring 8y ago
  The Robber's Cave Experiment for one https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MBpj3QKfPg9xKNeXW/the-robbers-cave-experiment https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MBpj3QKfPg9xKNeXW/the-robber...
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Beyond just skin color look at religion, sports, nationality, school almamater, etc...Humans are pretty wired to form ingroup/outgroups.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- qznc 8y ago
  If we want to consider the business world, there is frontend vs backend people, dev vs ops, sales vs development, blue vs white collar, management vs employee, ...
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    In college, the petty races between all subfields of CS hurt my learning. Lots of overlaps but no attempt at leveraging other similar ideas to ease the learning; everyone in its own silo.
  - ddorian43 8y ago
    But frontend sucks for REAL, no ?
    - nickthemagicman 8y ago
      Back End > ALL (as long as you're not using PHP)
- slv77 8y ago
  Oxytocin may be partly responsible for that wiring: http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262 http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262 My limited review of the research suggests that humans tit-for-tat trackers of betrayal and reciprocated trust. Oxytocin seems to add more weight to these memories in social interactions versus rational thought. The formation of outgroups may be the natural outcome of events that trigger the release of oxytocin.
pokemongoaway 8y ago
Err Offensive! Reverse racism doesn't exist! :P
- dwaltrip 8y ago
  C'mon, put more effort into your comment. Or just write out the comment and don't submit it, to get it out of your system (this actually works surprisingly well).
cubano 8y ago
I lived this world almost everyday I was incarcerated in Florida State Prison, and the dynamic certainly was interesting. What I noticed happened is each group first starts picking up on the speech patterns and mannerisms of the other and begins to emulate them. Without a doubt, this is a very important step for two-way communication to develop. It does take a significant amount of effort to keep things from deteriorating though, and just if just one person in the group decides against integrating, things can become unstable quite quickly.
- denzil_correa 8y ago
  > What I noticed happened is each group first starts picking up on the speech patterns and mannerisms of the other and begins to emulate them. Without a doubt, this is a very important step for two-way communication to develop. The imitation of accents and mannerisms is a strong indicator of empathy [0]. [0] Chartrand, T. L., & Bargh, J. A. (1999). The chameleon effect: the perception–behavior link and social interaction. Journal of personality and social psychology, 76(6), 893. Chicago
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agumonkey 8y ago
In Paris, African have been glued together as poor problematic immigrants, social scapegoats of some sort, thus they regularly complain together about racism, form rap bands, etc Once 2 arab teens order me to give me my phone. Being mixed I can pass for arab but I can't lie much about it so I thought I'd exploit the black/arab team thing to save my butt and say I'm half african. It failed hard: "oh a nigger, give the phone now". All in all I guess locality and blood ties reign supreme.
candiodari 8y ago
Even in normal social relations, first thing people do when meeting new people is finding common ground between them. That would play into this, as they're looking to join the in group, rather than actually curious about your school, home country, ...
johnchristopher 8y ago
While I also think that dynamic exists I still hold true that some people are truly racist or homophobic.

iopuy 8y ago

I like your test idea but its lack in supporting evidence is stunning.

nickthemagicman 8y ago
Ingroup/outgroup dynamics are actually very well studied area of sociology/evolutionary psychology. It's extremely fascinating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups
coldtea 8y ago
There's this thing called independent thinking. Not everything must come in pre-digested chunks of peer-reviewed journal meta-studies... (That said, there's tons of research in group dynamics, including the ideas the parent mentioned).
ThrustVectoring 8y ago
The Robber's Cave Experiment for one https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MBpj3QKfPg9xKNeXW/the-robbers-cave-experiment https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MBpj3QKfPg9xKNeXW/the-robber...

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Beyond just skin color look at religion, sports, nationality, school almamater, etc...Humans are pretty wired to form ingroup/outgroups.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
qznc 8y ago
If we want to consider the business world, there is frontend vs backend people, dev vs ops, sales vs development, blue vs white collar, management vs employee, ...
- agumonkey 8y ago
  In college, the petty races between all subfields of CS hurt my learning. Lots of overlaps but no attempt at leveraging other similar ideas to ease the learning; everyone in its own silo.
- ddorian43 8y ago
  But frontend sucks for REAL, no ?
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    Back End > ALL (as long as you're not using PHP)
slv77 8y ago
Oxytocin may be partly responsible for that wiring: http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262 http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262 My limited review of the research suggests that humans tit-for-tat trackers of betrayal and reciprocated trust. Oxytocin seems to add more weight to these memories in social interactions versus rational thought. The formation of outgroups may be the natural outcome of events that trigger the release of oxytocin.

pokemongoaway 8y ago

Err Offensive! Reverse racism doesn't exist! :P

dwaltrip 8y ago
C'mon, put more effort into your comment. Or just write out the comment and don't submit it, to get it out of your system (this actually works surprisingly well).

cubano 8y ago

I lived this world almost everyday I was incarcerated in Florida State Prison, and the dynamic certainly was interesting. What I noticed happened is each group first starts picking up on the speech patterns and mannerisms of the other and begins to emulate them. Without a doubt, this is a very important step for two-way communication to develop. It does take a significant amount of effort to keep things from deteriorating though, and just if just one person in the group decides against integrating, things can become unstable quite quickly.

denzil_correa 8y ago
> What I noticed happened is each group first starts picking up on the speech patterns and mannerisms of the other and begins to emulate them. Without a doubt, this is a very important step for two-way communication to develop. The imitation of accents and mannerisms is a strong indicator of empathy [0]. [0] Chartrand, T. L., & Bargh, J. A. (1999). The chameleon effect: the perception–behavior link and social interaction. Journal of personality and social psychology, 76(6), 893. Chicago

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agumonkey 8y ago

In Paris, African have been glued together as poor problematic immigrants, social scapegoats of some sort, thus they regularly complain together about racism, form rap bands, etc Once 2 arab teens order me to give me my phone. Being mixed I can pass for arab but I can't lie much about it so I thought I'd exploit the black/arab team thing to save my butt and say I'm half african. It failed hard: "oh a nigger, give the phone now". All in all I guess locality and blood ties reign supreme.

candiodari 8y ago

Even in normal social relations, first thing people do when meeting new people is finding common ground between them. That would play into this, as they're looking to join the in group, rather than actually curious about your school, home country, ...

johnchristopher 8y ago

While I also think that dynamic exists I still hold true that some people are truly racist or homophobic.