5 ms·

Engineers Are Leaving America for Canada

40 points by petethomas 9y ago

nyxtom 9y ago
I thought about this recently but based on the big cut I would end up taking it makes it basically not worth it. Living in Texas I have no state income tax on top of a tax ecosystem which is being cut I make out more just staying.
johan_larson 9y ago
The pay in Seattle for software developers is 100% more than in Toronto. Even second-tier US cities pay 50% more. If you're working in Toronto when you could be working in a US tech centre, I hope you have a good reason. Market Average Annual Tech Wage Software Engineer (USD) Vancouver, BC — $60,107 Toronto, ON — $62,365 Atlanta, GA — $92,380 Boston, MA — $103,979 Washington, DC — $108,330 New York, NY — $108,878 Seattle, WA — $113,906 Source: http://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Vancouver-Amazon-HQ2-Proposal-Feb-2018.pdf http://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/...
- conanbatt 9y ago
  There are plenty of ways in the which immigration makes the pay cut less problematic. 1) You have a deathtimer that if you dont get the paperwork in time, or the lottery, or whatever, you can be kicked out of the country. 2) You dont enjoy the same liberties as nationals 3) you dont qualify to multiple benefits that make financials tennable (i.e. medicare taxes, college subsidies, etc) 4) Up until recently, spouses of H1B workers could not work. That is somethign that was added in 2015, and that in this administration its been talked about removing, meaning 50k people lose their legal right to a job. 5) Inherent social issues of the popular cities. San Francisco and Seattle have very high homeless populations. So yes, there's plenty of reasons to take a pay cut, one way or the other.
- digianarchist 9y ago
  My good reason is my wife not being able to work on my TN visa. Really what muppet during the NAFTA negotiations thought this was a good idea?
  - fatjokes 9y ago
    Why do you think it was a bug and not a feature? I.e., it is intentional as a disincentive for foreign workers.
    - digianarchist 9y ago
      Because visa agreements made before (H1-B) and after (E-3) this one, by Republicans no less, have included spouse's right to work.
- s2g 9y ago
  I'm curious about the variance as well. I'd guess Seattle is quite a bit higher.
- sqnguyen 9y ago
  For what it's worth, Toronto salaries have a pretty different statistic on hired.com: https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018 Speaking from personal experience, I've seen salaries ranging from 100-120k CAD with 4 years of experience. Rent price increases as of late seem to be affecting much of the costs as well. YMMV. Tax is comparable to California as well. It's not as lucrative as USA, but public schooling is very strong in Toronto.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
davidf18 9y ago
More correct, descriptive title: Foreign Software Developers Are Leaving America for Canada. Engineers have actual engineering degrees. i.e. Electrical (I have undergrad), Civil, Mechanical, Chemical, Aeronautical, and Nuclear. The title to me implies America citizens leaving for Canada. When in fact they are foreigners who are not American citizens. Many of these people have come to America as H1-B Visa abusers and at any rate serve to depress labor prices of STEM workers (see "global labor arbitrage"). The fact that non-Americans are leaving America is a good thing as it serves stop the depression of wages.
OldMan2017 9y ago
Well, that means system works as intended. Good riddance. Hopefully our kids will get a chance to land a nice job without slaving for a bowl of rice.
BehindBlueEyes 9y ago
An interesting life story and comparison of Canadian vs. US immigration. How many of those Canadian immigrants are former US immigrants, how many are engineers...? I don't see anything supporting the claim in the title.

40 points by petethomas 9y ago

I thought about this recently but based on the big cut I would end up taking it makes it basically not worth it. Living in Texas I have no state income tax on top of a tax ecosystem which is being cut I make out more just staying.

johan_larson 9y ago

The pay in Seattle for software developers is 100% more than in Toronto. Even second-tier US cities pay 50% more. If you're working in Toronto when you could be working in a US tech centre, I hope you have a good reason. Market Average Annual Tech Wage Software Engineer (USD) Vancouver, BC — $60,107 Toronto, ON — $62,365 Atlanta, GA — $92,380 Boston, MA — $103,979 Washington, DC — $108,330 New York, NY — $108,878 Seattle, WA — $113,906 Source: http://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Vancouver-Amazon-HQ2-Proposal-Feb-2018.pdf http://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/...

conanbatt 9y ago
There are plenty of ways in the which immigration makes the pay cut less problematic. 1) You have a deathtimer that if you dont get the paperwork in time, or the lottery, or whatever, you can be kicked out of the country. 2) You dont enjoy the same liberties as nationals 3) you dont qualify to multiple benefits that make financials tennable (i.e. medicare taxes, college subsidies, etc) 4) Up until recently, spouses of H1B workers could not work. That is somethign that was added in 2015, and that in this administration its been talked about removing, meaning 50k people lose their legal right to a job. 5) Inherent social issues of the popular cities. San Francisco and Seattle have very high homeless populations. So yes, there's plenty of reasons to take a pay cut, one way or the other.
digianarchist 9y ago
My good reason is my wife not being able to work on my TN visa. Really what muppet during the NAFTA negotiations thought this was a good idea?
- fatjokes 9y ago
  Why do you think it was a bug and not a feature? I.e., it is intentional as a disincentive for foreign workers.
  - digianarchist 9y ago
    Because visa agreements made before (H1-B) and after (E-3) this one, by Republicans no less, have included spouse's right to work.
s2g 9y ago
I'm curious about the variance as well. I'd guess Seattle is quite a bit higher.
sqnguyen 9y ago
For what it's worth, Toronto salaries have a pretty different statistic on hired.com: https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018 Speaking from personal experience, I've seen salaries ranging from 100-120k CAD with 4 years of experience. Rent price increases as of late seem to be affecting much of the costs as well. YMMV. Tax is comparable to California as well. It's not as lucrative as USA, but public schooling is very strong in Toronto.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

davidf18 9y ago

More correct, descriptive title: Foreign Software Developers Are Leaving America for Canada. Engineers have actual engineering degrees. i.e. Electrical (I have undergrad), Civil, Mechanical, Chemical, Aeronautical, and Nuclear. The title to me implies America citizens leaving for Canada. When in fact they are foreigners who are not American citizens. Many of these people have come to America as H1-B Visa abusers and at any rate serve to depress labor prices of STEM workers (see "global labor arbitrage"). The fact that non-Americans are leaving America is a good thing as it serves stop the depression of wages.

OldMan2017 9y ago

Well, that means system works as intended. Good riddance. Hopefully our kids will get a chance to land a nice job without slaving for a bowl of rice.

BehindBlueEyes 9y ago

An interesting life story and comparison of Canadian vs. US immigration. How many of those Canadian immigrants are former US immigrants, how many are engineers...? I don't see anything supporting the claim in the title.