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Has there been a proven (in court) accusation that Facebook has “abused users” “past” the limits of the law?

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Has there been a proven (in court) accusation that Facebook has “abused users” “past” the limits of the law? Many times. The FTC consent decree [1], the violations of Belgian law [2] and the violations of German law [3] come to mind. (In each case, a court ruled or supervised a settlement. In each case, Facebook continued breaking the law.) There are many more. Facebook's culture is broken. The precedence for such lawless cultures is they get broken up or they go Enron. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/facebook-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers-failing-keep https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/faceb... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-belgium/facebook-loses-belgian-privacy-case-faces-fine-of-up-to-125-million-idUSKCN1G01LG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-belgium/facebook... [3] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-facebook-court-case-privacy-settings-terms-of-use-brought-vzbz/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-facebook-court-case-pri...
- downandout 9y ago
  With regard to the FTC, the agreement with them was reached specifically to keep it out of court. No judge or jury ruled on the merits of the allegations. A judge may have been involved, but only to approve the terms of the settlement. To my knowledge no US court has ever made the kind of finding you were implying they have. With regard to the European countries, I guess I should have been more specific in my question in limiting it to the US. Finding of fault by European courts/governments against large US corporations is nothing new and doesn’t imply any illegal intent on the part of the accused. Cash-starved, often socialist governments found throughout Europe will always find ways to use their broadly written laws to obtain badly needed government revenue from US corporations. In fact GDPR is just a massive expansion of this strategy.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    Convenient that all the courts and regulators, acting under court supervision, that have ruled against Facebook are illegitimate. First time, too, I've heard of modern Germany being referred to as lawless.
    - downandout 9y ago
      I didn’t refer to Germany as lawless. In fact they have gone the other direction - they have laws on the books that are so broadly written that any foreign corporation can be caught up in them without intent to violate them. It’s also rather convenient that with GDPR, Europe has created a sweeping regulation that happens to disproportionately affect and is sure to generate massive fines from deep-pocketed corporations based outside of Europe. Do you think that is a coincidence?
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > Do you think that is a coincidence? Facebook broke laws, was fined by courts and regulators in multiple countries, kept breaking laws, made a mess on both sides of the Atlantic, lied about what happened and then tried to throw it under the rug. Meanwhile, leaks from inside show zero repentance or even cognizance among employees of something having gone wrong. The EU is addressing this failure with regulation; we'll solve it more decisively by breaking Facebook up.
        downandout 9y ago
        we'll solve it more decisively by breaking Facebook up. Good luck with that. Facebook is not based in a socialist country. In Europe, by now they’d have undoubtedly been broken up or even taken over by the government, with revenues either flowing directly to the government or collected through high tax rates, fees, and fines. That is not the case here, where Facebook is based. I barely use Facebook for personal purposes, but I respect their right to exist, innovate, and make a profit. I also have a sense of logical personal responsibility that seems to be missing the the anti-Facebook folks. When I share something publicly, I fully expect that it will be...shared publicly. When I agree to be bound by the terms of conditions of a website...I agree to be bound by their terms and conditions. Somehow that is lost on all the people whining about it. How can anybody do business with or even employ people that publicly state that they do not recognize contract law?

> Has there been a proven (in court) accusation that Facebook has “abused users” “past” the limits of the law? Many times. The FTC consent decree [1], the violations of Belgian law [2] and the violations of German law [3] come to mind. (In each case, a court ruled or supervised a settlement. In each case, Facebook continued breaking the law.) There are many more. Facebook's culture is broken. The precedence for such lawless cultures is they get broken up or they go Enron. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/facebook-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers-failing-keep https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/faceb... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-belgium/facebook-loses-belgian-privacy-case-faces-fine-of-up-to-125-million-idUSKCN1G01LG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-belgium/facebook... [3] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-facebook-court-case-privacy-settings-terms-of-use-brought-vzbz/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-facebook-court-case-pri...

downandout 9y ago
With regard to the FTC, the agreement with them was reached specifically to keep it out of court. No judge or jury ruled on the merits of the allegations. A judge may have been involved, but only to approve the terms of the settlement. To my knowledge no US court has ever made the kind of finding you were implying they have. With regard to the European countries, I guess I should have been more specific in my question in limiting it to the US. Finding of fault by European courts/governments against large US corporations is nothing new and doesn’t imply any illegal intent on the part of the accused. Cash-starved, often socialist governments found throughout Europe will always find ways to use their broadly written laws to obtain badly needed government revenue from US corporations. In fact GDPR is just a massive expansion of this strategy.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  Convenient that all the courts and regulators, acting under court supervision, that have ruled against Facebook are illegitimate. First time, too, I've heard of modern Germany being referred to as lawless.
  - downandout 9y ago
    I didn’t refer to Germany as lawless. In fact they have gone the other direction - they have laws on the books that are so broadly written that any foreign corporation can be caught up in them without intent to violate them. It’s also rather convenient that with GDPR, Europe has created a sweeping regulation that happens to disproportionately affect and is sure to generate massive fines from deep-pocketed corporations based outside of Europe. Do you think that is a coincidence?
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > Do you think that is a coincidence? Facebook broke laws, was fined by courts and regulators in multiple countries, kept breaking laws, made a mess on both sides of the Atlantic, lied about what happened and then tried to throw it under the rug. Meanwhile, leaks from inside show zero repentance or even cognizance among employees of something having gone wrong. The EU is addressing this failure with regulation; we'll solve it more decisively by breaking Facebook up.
      - downandout 9y ago
        we'll solve it more decisively by breaking Facebook up. Good luck with that. Facebook is not based in a socialist country. In Europe, by now they’d have undoubtedly been broken up or even taken over by the government, with revenues either flowing directly to the government or collected through high tax rates, fees, and fines. That is not the case here, where Facebook is based. I barely use Facebook for personal purposes, but I respect their right to exist, innovate, and make a profit. I also have a sense of logical personal responsibility that seems to be missing the the anti-Facebook folks. When I share something publicly, I fully expect that it will be...shared publicly. When I agree to be bound by the terms of conditions of a website...I agree to be bound by their terms and conditions. Somehow that is lost on all the people whining about it. How can anybody do business with or even employ people that publicly state that they do not recognize contract law?