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I'm not saying I disagree with the principle (I very much agree that it shouldn't be this way), but this seems like a rather impractical argument. a language t

I'm not saying I disagree with the principle (I very much agree that it shouldn't be this way), but this seems like a rather impractical argument. a language that I could learn in a couple hours, work with in a couple days, and use well in a couple weeks ... I do find myself bitter that I'm expected to pick up a trendy language and platform (and have arbitrary recall of every data structure I learned 4 years ago) to even have a chance on the job market. Are you saying you feel you don't have a chance on the job market, and that you'd really like to have a shot at all the Ruby jobs out there? Why not spend a couple days becoming proficient hacking together a couple OS projects (or contributions) to show your proficiency (hint: the majority of Rails devs I know don't have any OS work to show)? I guarantee this will trump all the "X years experience" requirements and give you a legit shot at all these jobs.

BrandonM 16y ago
> Why not spend a couple days becoming proficient hacking together a couple OS projects (or contributions) to show your proficiency (hint: the majority of Rails devs I know don't have any OS work to show)? I guarantee this will trump all the "X years experience" requirements and give you a legit shot at all these jobs. That's a great suggestion. But why does no one put that in the requirements? "Fill this arbitrary criteria -OR- show us that you're a good programmer." There's even a problem there in that if you've been working with a security firm or just in internal software for long enough, it can be impossible to show all the amazing shit you've done. Everything is "For an extra-good chance at getting hired, show us your GitHub and StackOverflow presence." If we want to get paid, it seems we first have to be willing to work for free. For those of us who have been out of college for a few years, are paying back $60K in debts, and have settled into a soul-sucking tech job that leaves you wanting to nap in the sun by the time you get home, it can be hard to break out of the cycle. What I'm really saying is that "the Ruby jobs out there" should in actuality be "the programming jobs out there. Oh, and we happen to use Ruby, but since you clearly understand analogous languages, that shouldn't be an issue."
- JangoSteve 16y ago
  It's worth noting that when you submit your resume/cover-letter/application for a job, it goes to 1 of 2 people. It either goes to some administrative assistant whose sole job is to filter through all the resumes that don't meet some arbitrary requirement (simply a function to arbitrarily cut down the number of resumes they actually have to read). Or it goes directly to the executive hiring for the position. If your resume makes it to this person, pretty much nothing is set in stone (including their own requirements). Case in point, when I first graduated from college, I landed an engineering job that had "10 years industry experience" as a hard requirement.
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    Thanks a lot for the data point. I guess the real lesson is to show an interest in and affinity for a position and just apply for it, requirements be damned.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      I got my first job in programming by simply applying to every IT job at a company where I worked in the mailroom. Because it was an internal interview they had to do it (some kind of rule they had to follow) and finally they gave up and gave me a chance with the testy remark that if I failed they never ever wanted to see my face again. Worked fine :)

BrandonM 16y ago

> Why not spend a couple days becoming proficient hacking together a couple OS projects (or contributions) to show your proficiency (hint: the majority of Rails devs I know don't have any OS work to show)? I guarantee this will trump all the "X years experience" requirements and give you a legit shot at all these jobs. That's a great suggestion. But why does no one put that in the requirements? "Fill this arbitrary criteria -OR- show us that you're a good programmer." There's even a problem there in that if you've been working with a security firm or just in internal software for long enough, it can be impossible to show all the amazing shit you've done. Everything is "For an extra-good chance at getting hired, show us your GitHub and StackOverflow presence." If we want to get paid, it seems we first have to be willing to work for free. For those of us who have been out of college for a few years, are paying back $60K in debts, and have settled into a soul-sucking tech job that leaves you wanting to nap in the sun by the time you get home, it can be hard to break out of the cycle. What I'm really saying is that "the Ruby jobs out there" should in actuality be "the programming jobs out there. Oh, and we happen to use Ruby, but since you clearly understand analogous languages, that shouldn't be an issue."

JangoSteve 16y ago
It's worth noting that when you submit your resume/cover-letter/application for a job, it goes to 1 of 2 people. It either goes to some administrative assistant whose sole job is to filter through all the resumes that don't meet some arbitrary requirement (simply a function to arbitrarily cut down the number of resumes they actually have to read). Or it goes directly to the executive hiring for the position. If your resume makes it to this person, pretty much nothing is set in stone (including their own requirements). Case in point, when I first graduated from college, I landed an engineering job that had "10 years industry experience" as a hard requirement.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  Thanks a lot for the data point. I guess the real lesson is to show an interest in and affinity for a position and just apply for it, requirements be damned.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I got my first job in programming by simply applying to every IT job at a company where I worked in the mailroom. Because it was an internal interview they had to do it (some kind of rule they had to follow) and finally they gave up and gave me a chance with the testy remark that if I failed they never ever wanted to see my face again. Worked fine :)