6 ms·

It's important to add here that homework has never been shown to improve grades or educational outcomes generally, and it's a very well-studied topic.

anouk_anca 9y ago
On the other hand, parental involvement in their children's education has been shown to have a positive impact on children's development.
- scandox 9y ago
  How did they distinguish parental involvement specifically in education from the fact that supportive, encouraging parents are likely to engage with their child's education? I ask because my instinct is that emotional stability and encouragement are probably more important than homework.
  - anouk_anca 9y ago
    > emotional stability and encouragement are probably more important than homework I'm not sure if there is any work directly comparing the two, but it's true that emotional stability and encouragement are very important. "The most determinative factor in parental involvement appears to be what could be called: good parenthood in the home situation (Desforges & Abouchaar, 2003; Fantuzzo et al., 2004; McWayne et al., 2004). This factor is characterised by the establishing of a safe and stable home setting, stimulation of intellectual development e.g. by discussions between parent and child, modeling, disseminating the importance of education and fostering high expectations about children’s school success." [0] [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265632472_Parental_involvement_in_children%27s_education_A_review_study_about_the_effect_of_parental_involvement_on_children%27s_school_education_with_a_focus_on_the_position_of_illiterate_parents https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265632472_Parental_...
cyberjunkie 9y ago
Are there also studies on the effects of parents' addiction to social media and other forms of screen time?
bsder 9y ago
Really? Never? I find that hard to believe. Writing, to take one example, requires practice. The amount of practice you can get in a single academic year maxes out at 180 hours without homework and you would have no time to actually teach. I can imagine that 5 hours a week of writing homework in English rapidly exceeds the amount of time you could ever spend in class.
- dingaling 9y ago
  If children aren't receiving sufficient formalised practice in 30 hours of school per week then the curriculum is too crowded. Imagine a manager saying "you need to brush up on your C++. But we're too busy to arrange training. An hour a day after work should help instead" Children need time to develop in ways other than rote education. Homework steals that time from them. I am quite happy to write "did not have time to complete due to Scouts / swimming / x " on assignment sheets.
  - germinalphrase 9y ago
    As a teacher, I can confirm that state standards are generally overcrowded. This naturally leads to (for instance) high school students who don't know their parts of speech, but - you know - gotta keep moving. The discrete goals that schools are expected to fulfill are excessive, poorly defined, and politically vulnerable. It's a odd game.
  - bsder 9y ago
    > If children aren't receiving sufficient formalised practice in 30 hours of school per week then the curriculum is too crowded. That's fine, but don't complain about the education of the children not being very good afterward. 100 hours barely moves you out of the novice category for any subject. > Imagine a manager saying "you need to brush up on your C++. But we're too busy to arrange training. An hour a day after work should help instead" Funny, that's exactly what about 1/3 of the students in the CS classes that I taught were doing. Almost all of whom paid for the class themselves. They disagree with your assessment to the tune of several thousand dollars of hard earned money.
misja111 9y ago
Here you go: https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-papers/docs/WP0604.pdf https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-pa...
- ItsMe000001 9y ago
  Linking to a single study is useless unless the topic is something very specific and the linked study happens to be a match (for the specifics being discussed). That said, OPs comment is overly broad and devoid of specifics, so okay, you refuted his "never".
  - oblio 9y ago
    Isn't it OP's job to present proof for his claim? He just made a sweeping statement with no proof backing it up.
    - nothrabannosir 9y ago
      > Isn't it OP's job to present proof for his claim? No, it’s not his job. I’m guessing programming is probably his job. He’s not a researcher and this is not a peer reviewed journal. This is a place where amateurs of conversation come to discuss things that are of interest, but most of us know nothing about, in our spare time. It started out differently but that’s basically what it has evolved into. Providing citations is nice, it helps, it’s useful and constructive. But it’s not a job, it’s not a duty. You are a capable person with a working, sceptic brain who can do your own research if you so please. Anyone is free to make baseless claims, just downvote them or kindly ask for more info if you don’t like it. But I’m tired of this “provide 3 different citations from peer reviewed journals to get a passing grade” attitude. It’s getting so bad I’m seeing it in daily life now, and it’s killing all sense of colloquial conversation. You do some work if you don’t like what people are saying. Everyone will thank you for it. Or just ignore them. Or downvote them. Or be amicable, at least. But nobody has to do anything. I disagree. Sorry, I guess :/ pet peeve.
      - 9y ago
yoz-y 9y ago
It has absolutely helped me to drill in my multiplication tables and learn to write at least somewhat legible letters. If there is one thing I regret about my college years it is not doing math assignments.
- arethuza 9y ago
  I found it completely impossible (and I did try) to pass university level maths courses without carefully doing every tutorial.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mjburgess 9y ago
  By "homework" i mean specifically comparing cohorts of students in high-school that do and do not do the homework they're set, and connecting that with long-term grade trajectories. I dont have the sources to hand, but i recall an economist talking about large studies in this area.
  - nicoburns 9y ago
    I think some of this might be that high school tends to be quite easy for the brightest students. I did close to none of my homework all the way through high school because I didn't have to (paying attention in class was sufficient for me to graduate with mostly A's and get into the university of my choice).
  - astura 9y ago
    Well, yeah... sure, in high school the material is so easy and the pace is so slow that someone reasonably "smart" can do very well without doing homework. Just because that's the case it doesn't follow that "homework doesn't improve grades."
nso95 9y ago
Isn't practice important?
smcl 9y ago
Interesting also that Finland has a good reputation for its education, and its WAY down the bottom of that list, which seems to agree with your statement.
- user5454 9y ago
  There's a difference between the measurement "how much homework a student have" and the measurement "how much parents help with children's homework". The article is about the latter, while the GP discusses the former. I'm pretty sure Finnish students have homework. I also think the "poorer countries" is a red herring (e.g. Singapore scores quite highly on the list), I think it's more about cultural differences and competition about a much more limited number of places for higher education. My own (very limited) experience with the education systems in several Asian countries is that the focus is more on feeding students facts. Whereas the education in the Nordic countries generally focus more on learning how to solve problems, either by yourself or in groups.
bornonline1 9y ago
Again the issue is how we learn. Short sessions show some effects but homeworks are very tedious and put a lot of pressure on everyone.
dominotw 9y ago
Homework was never to improve educational outcomes it was to figure out who wants that free govt education more.
DoubleCribble 9y ago
Not true at all. There's a large part of brain development that comes from simply practicing handwriting.[0] Putting pen to paper is a huge part of language mastery. In most educational situations, that practice is going to occur outside of the classroom as there is simply not enough time in the typical school day. Even in the study mentioned in a previous comment [1], the authors disagree as, "we find additional homework to be most effective for high and low achievers". [0]https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/why-handwriting-is-still-essential-in-the-keyboard-age/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/why-handwriting-is... [1]https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-papers/docs/WP0604.pdf https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-pa...

anouk_anca 9y ago

On the other hand, parental involvement in their children's education has been shown to have a positive impact on children's development.

scandox 9y ago
How did they distinguish parental involvement specifically in education from the fact that supportive, encouraging parents are likely to engage with their child's education? I ask because my instinct is that emotional stability and encouragement are probably more important than homework.
- anouk_anca 9y ago
  > emotional stability and encouragement are probably more important than homework I'm not sure if there is any work directly comparing the two, but it's true that emotional stability and encouragement are very important. "The most determinative factor in parental involvement appears to be what could be called: good parenthood in the home situation (Desforges & Abouchaar, 2003; Fantuzzo et al., 2004; McWayne et al., 2004). This factor is characterised by the establishing of a safe and stable home setting, stimulation of intellectual development e.g. by discussions between parent and child, modeling, disseminating the importance of education and fostering high expectations about children’s school success." [0] [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265632472_Parental_involvement_in_children%27s_education_A_review_study_about_the_effect_of_parental_involvement_on_children%27s_school_education_with_a_focus_on_the_position_of_illiterate_parents https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265632472_Parental_...

cyberjunkie 9y ago

Are there also studies on the effects of parents' addiction to social media and other forms of screen time?

bsder 9y ago

Really? Never? I find that hard to believe. Writing, to take one example, requires practice. The amount of practice you can get in a single academic year maxes out at 180 hours without homework and you would have no time to actually teach. I can imagine that 5 hours a week of writing homework in English rapidly exceeds the amount of time you could ever spend in class.

dingaling 9y ago
If children aren't receiving sufficient formalised practice in 30 hours of school per week then the curriculum is too crowded. Imagine a manager saying "you need to brush up on your C++. But we're too busy to arrange training. An hour a day after work should help instead" Children need time to develop in ways other than rote education. Homework steals that time from them. I am quite happy to write "did not have time to complete due to Scouts / swimming / x " on assignment sheets.
- germinalphrase 9y ago
  As a teacher, I can confirm that state standards are generally overcrowded. This naturally leads to (for instance) high school students who don't know their parts of speech, but - you know - gotta keep moving. The discrete goals that schools are expected to fulfill are excessive, poorly defined, and politically vulnerable. It's a odd game.
- bsder 9y ago
  > If children aren't receiving sufficient formalised practice in 30 hours of school per week then the curriculum is too crowded. That's fine, but don't complain about the education of the children not being very good afterward. 100 hours barely moves you out of the novice category for any subject. > Imagine a manager saying "you need to brush up on your C++. But we're too busy to arrange training. An hour a day after work should help instead" Funny, that's exactly what about 1/3 of the students in the CS classes that I taught were doing. Almost all of whom paid for the class themselves. They disagree with your assessment to the tune of several thousand dollars of hard earned money.

misja111 9y ago

Here you go: https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-papers/docs/WP0604.pdf https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-pa...

ItsMe000001 9y ago
Linking to a single study is useless unless the topic is something very specific and the linked study happens to be a match (for the specifics being discussed). That said, OPs comment is overly broad and devoid of specifics, so okay, you refuted his "never".
- oblio 9y ago
  Isn't it OP's job to present proof for his claim? He just made a sweeping statement with no proof backing it up.
  - nothrabannosir 9y ago
    > Isn't it OP's job to present proof for his claim? No, it’s not his job. I’m guessing programming is probably his job. He’s not a researcher and this is not a peer reviewed journal. This is a place where amateurs of conversation come to discuss things that are of interest, but most of us know nothing about, in our spare time. It started out differently but that’s basically what it has evolved into. Providing citations is nice, it helps, it’s useful and constructive. But it’s not a job, it’s not a duty. You are a capable person with a working, sceptic brain who can do your own research if you so please. Anyone is free to make baseless claims, just downvote them or kindly ask for more info if you don’t like it. But I’m tired of this “provide 3 different citations from peer reviewed journals to get a passing grade” attitude. It’s getting so bad I’m seeing it in daily life now, and it’s killing all sense of colloquial conversation. You do some work if you don’t like what people are saying. Everyone will thank you for it. Or just ignore them. Or downvote them. Or be amicable, at least. But nobody has to do anything. I disagree. Sorry, I guess :/ pet peeve.
    - 9y ago

yoz-y 9y ago

It has absolutely helped me to drill in my multiplication tables and learn to write at least somewhat legible letters. If there is one thing I regret about my college years it is not doing math assignments.

arethuza 9y ago
I found it completely impossible (and I did try) to pass university level maths courses without carefully doing every tutorial.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mjburgess 9y ago
By "homework" i mean specifically comparing cohorts of students in high-school that do and do not do the homework they're set, and connecting that with long-term grade trajectories. I dont have the sources to hand, but i recall an economist talking about large studies in this area.
- nicoburns 9y ago
  I think some of this might be that high school tends to be quite easy for the brightest students. I did close to none of my homework all the way through high school because I didn't have to (paying attention in class was sufficient for me to graduate with mostly A's and get into the university of my choice).
- astura 9y ago
  Well, yeah... sure, in high school the material is so easy and the pace is so slow that someone reasonably "smart" can do very well without doing homework. Just because that's the case it doesn't follow that "homework doesn't improve grades."

nso95 9y ago

Isn't practice important?

smcl 9y ago

Interesting also that Finland has a good reputation for its education, and its WAY down the bottom of that list, which seems to agree with your statement.

user5454 9y ago
There's a difference between the measurement "how much homework a student have" and the measurement "how much parents help with children's homework". The article is about the latter, while the GP discusses the former. I'm pretty sure Finnish students have homework. I also think the "poorer countries" is a red herring (e.g. Singapore scores quite highly on the list), I think it's more about cultural differences and competition about a much more limited number of places for higher education. My own (very limited) experience with the education systems in several Asian countries is that the focus is more on feeding students facts. Whereas the education in the Nordic countries generally focus more on learning how to solve problems, either by yourself or in groups.

bornonline1 9y ago

Again the issue is how we learn. Short sessions show some effects but homeworks are very tedious and put a lot of pressure on everyone.

dominotw 9y ago

Homework was never to improve educational outcomes it was to figure out who wants that free govt education more.

DoubleCribble 9y ago

Not true at all. There's a large part of brain development that comes from simply practicing handwriting.[0] Putting pen to paper is a huge part of language mastery. In most educational situations, that practice is going to occur outside of the classroom as there is simply not enough time in the typical school day. Even in the study mentioned in a previous comment [1], the authors disagree as, "we find additional homework to be most effective for high and low achievers". [0]https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/why-handwriting-is-still-essential-in-the-keyboard-age/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/why-handwriting-is... [1]https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-papers/docs/WP0604.pdf https://www.binghamton.edu/economics/research/old-working-pa...