4 ms·

India's population has boomed in 50 years but has the number of available places at prestigious institutions boomed with it?

rakamotog 9y ago
Yes! Exponentially in last 10 years. When I took the exam a rank of 2.5 k was almost equal to not getting a rank. But now a rank of 10k has better opportunities! Colleges mushroomed from 6 to 23!
- devang1994 9y ago
  Getting CS at Bombay, Kanpur, Delhi, Madras etc still requires a rank under 500 or so. Correct me if I am wrong but all the headline grabbing salaries are still restricted to these courses and institutes.
  - pycassa 9y ago
    No way rank around 500 gives you CS in those colleges. Mine is 595 and did electrical engineering in Kharagpur. Electrical engineering is after CS and EC. Basically Your rank decides what institute and what branch you will be graduating in. Even though Kharagpur is on par with the institutes you mentioned, people don't prefer it as it's not in a metro City.
  - rakamotog 9y ago
    Not exactly. CS in tier 2 IIT's also gets you those headlines. Basically the numbers decrease (1 from IIT Hyderabad vs 5+ from IIT B IMO)
trinkletingas 9y ago
No.
intended 9y ago
India’s pop has been booming for more than 50 years, and we only got independence recently enough that institution building is measured in less than 100 years (to be fair many old colleges exist with older roots, but for the sake of comparison with the entire population, they are a drop in the bucket.) Unfortunately time is not on our side, as it takes a long time to make institutions and good institutional habits. To compound the problem- for most of 50 years there was huge bran drain. All those people who would become professors, or experts used their English advantage to move abroad and use their talents better. Not to mention the years lost due to license raj. I’d say things are slowly working out and improving. Whether it’s in time to help the demographics, I don’t know.
- BeetleB 9y ago
  Sorry - beg to differ. 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions. Having lived in multiple countries, it is often clear to me that the reason for any country's woes almost always stems from their culture. Things may be different now, but historically Indian culture valued credentials and degrees a lot more than they did gaining knowledge. And many aspects of culture interfere with education. India is a country where relationships matter a lot more than, say, in the US. Part of that dynamic is the pressure to do favors for each other. This can be a huge problem when trying to objectively measure performance. I know a teacher in a 3rd world country who was given a hard time by society for not going easy on a student who happened to be a child of a relative. Stuff like that. Culture is hard to change. Another example from another comment here: The fact that many students go to school, expect to learn little, and then spend hours with a tutor after school. I've spoken to parents from similar countries who: 1. Viewed the fact that their kids had tutors as a status symbol (clear barrier to change!) 2. Seriously could not comprehend the notion that teachers are supposed to teach well enough that going to a tutoring academy would not be required. I kid you not - quite a few refused to believe I was a top student and did not have a private tutor, and that my school had top teachers. For them, that's simply not how the world works. With the right culture, you can build great institutions in a lot less than 70 years. But examples like the above are examples of a culture getting in the way of institution building, and you end up clashing with the culture at every step.
  - pm90 9y ago
    I agree with your point that 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions (e.g. China, South Korea etc.). But I disagree that culture is the culprit. Firstly, Indian culture is incredibly diverse. If you live in Gujarat, you are respected a lot more for having your own business (whether its a Multi National Company or a corner shop) rather than an employee, even if you have a great job. If you live in Kerala, I imagine you are respected well if you go abroad and send remittances back. This is just a couple of difference on how different the cultures can be. Credential ism is a very recent phenomena in Indian society, in place mostly because of the police-state like rule imposed on Indian society by the British. When all other methods of livelihood are elliminated (mostly, the textiles industry, but also local armaments and artists) and the only good jobs available are those in Government, of course the society will re-orient itself to satisfy those requirements. There are many other, very good reasons for why Indian Institutions aren't as strong today as they should be. The Origin of Political Order is an excellent book if you're more interested in these things.

rakamotog 9y ago

Yes! Exponentially in last 10 years. When I took the exam a rank of 2.5 k was almost equal to not getting a rank. But now a rank of 10k has better opportunities! Colleges mushroomed from 6 to 23!

devang1994 9y ago
Getting CS at Bombay, Kanpur, Delhi, Madras etc still requires a rank under 500 or so. Correct me if I am wrong but all the headline grabbing salaries are still restricted to these courses and institutes.
- pycassa 9y ago
  No way rank around 500 gives you CS in those colleges. Mine is 595 and did electrical engineering in Kharagpur. Electrical engineering is after CS and EC. Basically Your rank decides what institute and what branch you will be graduating in. Even though Kharagpur is on par with the institutes you mentioned, people don't prefer it as it's not in a metro City.
- rakamotog 9y ago
  Not exactly. CS in tier 2 IIT's also gets you those headlines. Basically the numbers decrease (1 from IIT Hyderabad vs 5+ from IIT B IMO)

trinkletingas 9y ago

No.

intended 9y ago

India’s pop has been booming for more than 50 years, and we only got independence recently enough that institution building is measured in less than 100 years (to be fair many old colleges exist with older roots, but for the sake of comparison with the entire population, they are a drop in the bucket.) Unfortunately time is not on our side, as it takes a long time to make institutions and good institutional habits. To compound the problem- for most of 50 years there was huge bran drain. All those people who would become professors, or experts used their English advantage to move abroad and use their talents better. Not to mention the years lost due to license raj. I’d say things are slowly working out and improving. Whether it’s in time to help the demographics, I don’t know.

BeetleB 9y ago
Sorry - beg to differ. 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions. Having lived in multiple countries, it is often clear to me that the reason for any country's woes almost always stems from their culture. Things may be different now, but historically Indian culture valued credentials and degrees a lot more than they did gaining knowledge. And many aspects of culture interfere with education. India is a country where relationships matter a lot more than, say, in the US. Part of that dynamic is the pressure to do favors for each other. This can be a huge problem when trying to objectively measure performance. I know a teacher in a 3rd world country who was given a hard time by society for not going easy on a student who happened to be a child of a relative. Stuff like that. Culture is hard to change. Another example from another comment here: The fact that many students go to school, expect to learn little, and then spend hours with a tutor after school. I've spoken to parents from similar countries who: 1. Viewed the fact that their kids had tutors as a status symbol (clear barrier to change!) 2. Seriously could not comprehend the notion that teachers are supposed to teach well enough that going to a tutoring academy would not be required. I kid you not - quite a few refused to believe I was a top student and did not have a private tutor, and that my school had top teachers. For them, that's simply not how the world works. With the right culture, you can build great institutions in a lot less than 70 years. But examples like the above are examples of a culture getting in the way of institution building, and you end up clashing with the culture at every step.
- pm90 9y ago
  I agree with your point that 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions (e.g. China, South Korea etc.). But I disagree that culture is the culprit. Firstly, Indian culture is incredibly diverse. If you live in Gujarat, you are respected a lot more for having your own business (whether its a Multi National Company or a corner shop) rather than an employee, even if you have a great job. If you live in Kerala, I imagine you are respected well if you go abroad and send remittances back. This is just a couple of difference on how different the cultures can be. Credential ism is a very recent phenomena in Indian society, in place mostly because of the police-state like rule imposed on Indian society by the British. When all other methods of livelihood are elliminated (mostly, the textiles industry, but also local armaments and artists) and the only good jobs available are those in Government, of course the society will re-orient itself to satisfy those requirements. There are many other, very good reasons for why Indian Institutions aren't as strong today as they should be. The Origin of Political Order is an excellent book if you're more interested in these things.