4 ms·

I almost completely disagree with you. At a company I worked at, we made the mistake of hiring someone who was a core contributor to a language you have very li

I almost completely disagree with you. At a company I worked at, we made the mistake of hiring someone who was a core contributor to a language you have very likely heard of and just as likely have worked with. It didn't work out. The skills required to be a professional software engineer writing business logic are not identical to those required to write excellent core, library or framework code. Different beasts, and both should have respect for one another. Conflate them at your own peril. Our experience with trying to make things work with this candidate was not very successful, and it was one of the two (out of dozens) of hires we made that we had trouble with. Candidates should find sane companies that test based on competence and not on glorified SAT like algo teasers. Companies should find sane candidate who are competent at doing the job they need done. Many parties in both camps flop at this search process.

vemv 9y ago
As for the mentioned case, perhaps there was a mismatch in expectations. Personally I have witnessed an ex-employer hiring a truly world-class framework contributor. Of course we didn't give him 'feature development' tasks. In fact he was out of our scrum process. Instead, he was given high-profile bugs, code analysis/refactoring tasks, and was given the freedom to create some cool abstractions. That's precisely my kind of dream job! True consultancy. (and yes, you can get those kind of gigs investing much less beforehand... you'll just get fewer, lower-profile ones?)
- watwut 9y ago
  Why the hell would company not give such job to internal people? At least in my experience, these kind of jobs is what you can get after you worked in a company for a while and company trusts you. Giving refactoring task to someone who is new strucks me as odd. Also, why are not people doing feature development tasks not allowed to create abstractions where appropriate? Or high profile bugs etc? That is another odd thing. If I would be hired and it turned out I don't have that freedom and the interesting bugs, I would leave the company fast - especially if someone new would suddenly get these normally learn-a-lot tasks and freedoms.
  - vemv 9y ago
    I think you are not keeping in mind that these consultants aren't "someones", they are world-class experts. Often, team members know their names before they join the company (why? because FOSS contributions!).
    - watwut 9y ago
      That really sounds more like a wishful dream then reality. And own people experienced with your system not fixing high profile bugs but those instead being assigned to someone new is extremely odd decision.
      - vemv 9y ago
        Well I have seen it with my own eyes, so what can I say? I specifically remember this guy who was really good debugging the 'undebuggable'. Perhaps more business-oriented bugs would indeed be assigned elsewhere, but more elusive stuff concerned with 'mechanisms', setup code, etc would be perfect for him. I also have performed a similar role myself (just at a humbler team)
        watwut 9y ago
        I hear you, but really, if my company would not assign such tasks to internal people, I would leave. Working there sounds like receipt for stagnation.
- yowlingcat 9y ago
  Perhaps I didn't explain it as well as I could have, but there was no mismatch. The contributor knew what they were getting into, but it just didn't end up being as great a fit for both parties involved. To give more context: I think there is a lot more space for these kinds of hacker types to fit in at a larger company where their skills can truly add value. But at a small to mid sized tech company where that's not the primary business focus, it's not going to work out so well. On the other hand, if you as an engineer want to write business logic, these kind of companies are great places to be.

vemv 9y ago

As for the mentioned case, perhaps there was a mismatch in expectations. Personally I have witnessed an ex-employer hiring a truly world-class framework contributor. Of course we didn't give him 'feature development' tasks. In fact he was out of our scrum process. Instead, he was given high-profile bugs, code analysis/refactoring tasks, and was given the freedom to create some cool abstractions. That's precisely my kind of dream job! True consultancy. (and yes, you can get those kind of gigs investing much less beforehand... you'll just get fewer, lower-profile ones?)

watwut 9y ago
Why the hell would company not give such job to internal people? At least in my experience, these kind of jobs is what you can get after you worked in a company for a while and company trusts you. Giving refactoring task to someone who is new strucks me as odd. Also, why are not people doing feature development tasks not allowed to create abstractions where appropriate? Or high profile bugs etc? That is another odd thing. If I would be hired and it turned out I don't have that freedom and the interesting bugs, I would leave the company fast - especially if someone new would suddenly get these normally learn-a-lot tasks and freedoms.
- vemv 9y ago
  I think you are not keeping in mind that these consultants aren't "someones", they are world-class experts. Often, team members know their names before they join the company (why? because FOSS contributions!).
  - watwut 9y ago
    That really sounds more like a wishful dream then reality. And own people experienced with your system not fixing high profile bugs but those instead being assigned to someone new is extremely odd decision.
    - vemv 9y ago
      Well I have seen it with my own eyes, so what can I say? I specifically remember this guy who was really good debugging the 'undebuggable'. Perhaps more business-oriented bugs would indeed be assigned elsewhere, but more elusive stuff concerned with 'mechanisms', setup code, etc would be perfect for him. I also have performed a similar role myself (just at a humbler team)
      - watwut 9y ago
        I hear you, but really, if my company would not assign such tasks to internal people, I would leave. Working there sounds like receipt for stagnation.
yowlingcat 9y ago
Perhaps I didn't explain it as well as I could have, but there was no mismatch. The contributor knew what they were getting into, but it just didn't end up being as great a fit for both parties involved. To give more context: I think there is a lot more space for these kinds of hacker types to fit in at a larger company where their skills can truly add value. But at a small to mid sized tech company where that's not the primary business focus, it's not going to work out so well. On the other hand, if you as an engineer want to write business logic, these kind of companies are great places to be.