4 ms·

> Not to belittle anyone but...a plumber is licensed. An electrician is licensed. Even a hair stylist is licensed. Shitty plumbers are licensed. Shitty electr

> Not to belittle anyone but...a plumber is licensed. An electrician is licensed. Even a hair stylist is licensed. Shitty plumbers are licensed. Shitty electricians are licensed. Shitty hair stylists are licensed. A license says nothing about current competence. It says the person demonstrated some minimal level of competence at one point, fills out their paperwork every year, and hasn't fucked up royally enough yet to have it revoked. Every time this subject comes up someone inevitably points to licensure as some sort of panacea. Licensure does not replace skills or competency assessments.

tastyfreeze 9y ago
Fizzbuzz and other interview coding tests are being used to test minimal competence. If a license proves minimal competence it solves this particular problem. Sure, the licensed may be shitty at their job but at least they can do the job.
- vonmoltke 9y ago
  I highly doubt "Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious" refers to tests of basic competence.
eeZah7Ux 9y ago
Indeed: you can become a "licensed dietitian" in a day or two.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Is that true? Wikipedia says (at least in the USA) you need 1200 hours of supervised and practical experience and you have to have a bachelor's degree. Following their source link, it looks like you have to apply for the licensing test 12 months before actually taking it, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietitian#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietitian#United_States --edit: I think you might be talking about a nutritionist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist) which is not regulated in any way and is not a medical job. These are the people who will talk to you about essential oils and homeopathy and Herbalife.
chiefalchemist 9y ago
Yes. The point was other professions have a "process", and many of them have real (publuc) health related impact. It's also why I pivoted to certification. There is no panacea, nor is the status quo sustainable. So where's the disruption? Where's the innovation?
freehunter 9y ago
So because some licenses don't have ongoing re-certification requirements, that means all license are bad? Couldn't it just be that a "programming license" has regular testing and re-certification? Because a license/certification test is the exact definition of "skills/competency assessment". If the licensing test doesn't meet those needs, that's not the fault of licenses in general, that's a fault in the test and can be fixed.
- vonmoltke 9y ago
  > So because some licenses don't have ongoing re-certification requirements, that means all license are bad? That is not at all what I said. I was addressing how licensure does very little to prove competence for the three trades specified in the post. > Couldn't it just be that a "programming license" has regular testing and re-certification? How many licenses require recertification? Why do you think a programming one would? Continuing education requirements do not count for this, as they are mere completion measures. > Because a license/certification test is the exact definition of "skills/competency assessment". Yes, and this test needs to be passed once. The longer ago it was, the less it says about the person now.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    >Why do you think a programming one would? Because it doesn’t exist yet, and my hypothetical is just as good as yours.

tastyfreeze 9y ago

Fizzbuzz and other interview coding tests are being used to test minimal competence. If a license proves minimal competence it solves this particular problem. Sure, the licensed may be shitty at their job but at least they can do the job.

vonmoltke 9y ago
I highly doubt "Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious" refers to tests of basic competence.

eeZah7Ux 9y ago

Indeed: you can become a "licensed dietitian" in a day or two.

freehunter 9y ago
Is that true? Wikipedia says (at least in the USA) you need 1200 hours of supervised and practical experience and you have to have a bachelor's degree. Following their source link, it looks like you have to apply for the licensing test 12 months before actually taking it, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietitian#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietitian#United_States --edit: I think you might be talking about a nutritionist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist) which is not regulated in any way and is not a medical job. These are the people who will talk to you about essential oils and homeopathy and Herbalife.

chiefalchemist 9y ago

Yes. The point was other professions have a "process", and many of them have real (publuc) health related impact. It's also why I pivoted to certification. There is no panacea, nor is the status quo sustainable. So where's the disruption? Where's the innovation?

freehunter 9y ago

So because some licenses don't have ongoing re-certification requirements, that means all license are bad? Couldn't it just be that a "programming license" has regular testing and re-certification? Because a license/certification test is the exact definition of "skills/competency assessment". If the licensing test doesn't meet those needs, that's not the fault of licenses in general, that's a fault in the test and can be fixed.

vonmoltke 9y ago
> So because some licenses don't have ongoing re-certification requirements, that means all license are bad? That is not at all what I said. I was addressing how licensure does very little to prove competence for the three trades specified in the post. > Couldn't it just be that a "programming license" has regular testing and re-certification? How many licenses require recertification? Why do you think a programming one would? Continuing education requirements do not count for this, as they are mere completion measures. > Because a license/certification test is the exact definition of "skills/competency assessment". Yes, and this test needs to be passed once. The longer ago it was, the less it says about the person now.
- freehunter 9y ago
  >Why do you think a programming one would? Because it doesn’t exist yet, and my hypothetical is just as good as yours.