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I've tried to tell companies time and time again that building the core foundation of the business on an external service like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter is d

by tibbon 9y ago

I've tried to tell companies time and time again that building the core foundation of the business on an external service like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter is doomed in the end. This happened 10 years ago when Twitter locked down a lot of their API access more, and is happening again now. The CEOs and CTOs of those companies never listen, thinking "this time will be different", and yet it isn't. People in those positions don't like hearing truth that conflicts with their deeply held belief that they are different and their product/service (or mining of user data) is special and will make it through some loophole. I wish I could monetize saving companies and investors millions of dollars with this advice, but I haven't figured that out. No one likes to hear 'no'

onion2k 9y ago
No one likes to hear 'no' I don't think that's the whole story. "Don't build your core business around that API" ignores the opportunity that's there now. Your advice to build a business around something that can't be removed is sound if you care about the long term, which is sensible, but it ignores the short term immediate gain. You don't have to build a business that starts up and continues doing the same thing forever; for some businesses adapting to things like an API being removed is just another challenge to be met. You're clearly quite cautious and like to plan far ahead. Other people don't do that. That doesn't make them wrong.
- zerkten 9y ago
  > That doesn't make them wrong. What if you are downstream from these changes, relying on a product that uses these APIs, and now you are negatively affected? You wouldn't be thinking that that their lack of planning or caution is a reasonable way of doing business. Perhaps your due diligence should have caught this issue ahead of time, but it's far from unreasonable for people to apply research or experience when it's available.
  - onion2k 9y ago
    What if you are downstream from these changes, relying on a product that uses these APIs, and now you are negatively affected? You resolve the problem and carry on. Every business will have challenges like that. You can't mitigate them all ahead of time, at least not without missing a bunch of opportunities right now. As a developer I find it hard to build things I know will break in the future. I find it hard to build things that might break in the future. Sometimes the opportunity in front of you makes it worthwhile regardless.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  It doesn't make them wrong but it does make them careless. If you build something on a weak foundation, knowing it will all come tumbling down sooner or later you'd better make sure beforehand where to go when the floor gets pulled from under you. With that I do not mean 'the Bahamas' but rather an alternative for the external dependency which can take over its role with as limited an impact for customers as possible. Doing so is not just good stewardship but it might also reveal new opportunities which otherwise would have been overlooked. By making things like Facebook optional you both reduce your own dependency on their antics as well as Facebook's power. The former is good for your own personal well-being, the latter is good for everyone else.
  - AznHisoka 9y ago
    Your advice make sense in some fields. In others like social media marketing SaaS products, there is literally no alternative to facebook(whether its publishing to facebook or analytics for facebook) There is only diversified income streams (products). Not alternatives
  - mygo 9y ago
    > It doesn't make them wrong but it does make them careless. No, it doesn’t necessarily make them careless. It could simply make them agile and adaptable. A bird can perch on a dying limb, grow, and fly away when it breaks off.
    - Yetanfou 9y ago
      ...but a bird which builds a nest on a dying limb leaves its dependants hanging in the cold.
- protomyth 9y ago
  Basically a variation on the “we saved enough money on storing just two digits for year instead of four that the Y2K work was more than paid for“. The opportunity might be more than worth the refactoring cost later.
mslate 9y ago
And Microsoft shouldn't have built for IBM, and Netflix shouldn't have used AWS. Partnering with third parties has risks, go figure.
maccam94 9y ago
This supposes that there's a viable alternative. If there isn't, the companies need to build that risk into their plans so they don't make investments which don't achieve returns soon enough.
AznHisoka 9y ago
This is a meme that isn't 100% true. There are many many companies out there that have, yes depended on a 3rd party API, but also built something incredibly valuable, profitable, and even reaped financially from it (see Buffer, Hootsuite, Radian6, AppAnnie, etc) No, it probably isn't going to last forever (then again, what company is?), but the alternative is... not building a business and waiting forever until they discover an idea that has no 3rd party dependencies AND has lots of demand (ie probably never).
homero 9y ago
I learned my lesson with Twitter. I never rely on anything external anymore and if I use something, I make sure I have a replacement available. Never again.
codersbrew 9y ago
yeah, but they generated money while they could. For a short term flip it's not a bad play.

by tibbon 9y ago

onion2k 9y ago

No one likes to hear 'no' I don't think that's the whole story. "Don't build your core business around that API" ignores the opportunity that's there now. Your advice to build a business around something that can't be removed is sound if you care about the long term, which is sensible, but it ignores the short term immediate gain. You don't have to build a business that starts up and continues doing the same thing forever; for some businesses adapting to things like an API being removed is just another challenge to be met. You're clearly quite cautious and like to plan far ahead. Other people don't do that. That doesn't make them wrong.

zerkten 9y ago
> That doesn't make them wrong. What if you are downstream from these changes, relying on a product that uses these APIs, and now you are negatively affected? You wouldn't be thinking that that their lack of planning or caution is a reasonable way of doing business. Perhaps your due diligence should have caught this issue ahead of time, but it's far from unreasonable for people to apply research or experience when it's available.
- onion2k 9y ago
  What if you are downstream from these changes, relying on a product that uses these APIs, and now you are negatively affected? You resolve the problem and carry on. Every business will have challenges like that. You can't mitigate them all ahead of time, at least not without missing a bunch of opportunities right now. As a developer I find it hard to build things I know will break in the future. I find it hard to build things that might break in the future. Sometimes the opportunity in front of you makes it worthwhile regardless.
Yetanfou 9y ago
It doesn't make them wrong but it does make them careless. If you build something on a weak foundation, knowing it will all come tumbling down sooner or later you'd better make sure beforehand where to go when the floor gets pulled from under you. With that I do not mean 'the Bahamas' but rather an alternative for the external dependency which can take over its role with as limited an impact for customers as possible. Doing so is not just good stewardship but it might also reveal new opportunities which otherwise would have been overlooked. By making things like Facebook optional you both reduce your own dependency on their antics as well as Facebook's power. The former is good for your own personal well-being, the latter is good for everyone else.
- AznHisoka 9y ago
  Your advice make sense in some fields. In others like social media marketing SaaS products, there is literally no alternative to facebook(whether its publishing to facebook or analytics for facebook) There is only diversified income streams (products). Not alternatives
- mygo 9y ago
  > It doesn't make them wrong but it does make them careless. No, it doesn’t necessarily make them careless. It could simply make them agile and adaptable. A bird can perch on a dying limb, grow, and fly away when it breaks off.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    ...but a bird which builds a nest on a dying limb leaves its dependants hanging in the cold.
protomyth 9y ago
Basically a variation on the “we saved enough money on storing just two digits for year instead of four that the Y2K work was more than paid for“. The opportunity might be more than worth the refactoring cost later.

mslate 9y ago

And Microsoft shouldn't have built for IBM, and Netflix shouldn't have used AWS. Partnering with third parties has risks, go figure.

maccam94 9y ago

This supposes that there's a viable alternative. If there isn't, the companies need to build that risk into their plans so they don't make investments which don't achieve returns soon enough.

AznHisoka 9y ago

This is a meme that isn't 100% true. There are many many companies out there that have, yes depended on a 3rd party API, but also built something incredibly valuable, profitable, and even reaped financially from it (see Buffer, Hootsuite, Radian6, AppAnnie, etc) No, it probably isn't going to last forever (then again, what company is?), but the alternative is... not building a business and waiting forever until they discover an idea that has no 3rd party dependencies AND has lots of demand (ie probably never).

homero 9y ago

I learned my lesson with Twitter. I never rely on anything external anymore and if I use something, I make sure I have a replacement available. Never again.

codersbrew 9y ago

yeah, but they generated money while they could. For a short term flip it's not a bad play.