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>I typically got rejected at #3 which means the homework meant nothing. It got you to step #3, but if I were applying to that company, I would not have done th

>I typically got rejected at #3 which means the homework meant nothing. It got you to step #3, but if I were applying to that company, I would not have done the homework. When they told me of the homework assignment, I would have asked, "assuming I do it, what comes next?" And when they replied "an algorithm exam, followed by an onsite interview", my reply would have been, "homework is the last step, or no thank you." Then again, I have almost two decades of experience and a well-established track record of accomplishments. And I currently have a solid, well-paying job. If I were fresh out of school, trying to land my first programming job, I would probably be more flexible.

minimaxir 8y ago
In disclosure, all the companies were upfront about the full interview process. That said, in this job market, there isn't much leverage to say no to a prospective job or to make demands of the interview process unless you're already a rockstar.
- rhapsodic 8y ago
  >That said, in this job market, there isn't much leverage to say no to a prospective job or to make demands of the interview process unless you're already a rockstar. I don't consider myself a rockstar, or even a prima donna type who would make "demands" of the interview process. But I'm confident I could find a job fairly quickly without jumping through ridiculous hoops just to get an initial response from a company. From my perspective, the software developer market is still a seller's market. YMMV, of course. Maybe you're in an area where there are more qualified developers than available jobs, and employers have the upper hand to the extent they can pull off bullshit like this.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ryandrake 8y ago
  This is a great point that gets lost because of the widely held “shortage of engineers” myth. The hiring market is strongly an employer’s market. There is far more talent out there seeking relatively few jobs, so employers can dictate terms pretty much absolutely. If they require a 5 day homework, then it’s “homework or GTFO”. If they require whiteboard hazing, it’s “whiteboard or GTFO”. The last real employee’s-market we had was in the late 90’s!
  - markbnj 8y ago
    > The hiring market is strongly an employer’s market. There is far more talent out there seeking relatively few jobs, so employers can dictate terms pretty much absolutely. Wow, are you in the U.S.? This is pretty much the exact opposite of my experience and perception. I'm sure it must vary somewhat based on your specialty and what kind of work you do.
    - user5994461 8y ago
      Depends on where you live and how much you ask for. There are entire deserts where there isn't a tech company in a hundred miles around. Even in the most active tech hub, it may be difficult to find a new job, assuming you care about things like work hours, health coverage or a moderate commute.
      - ryandrake 8y ago
        Even in areas seen as having many employment opportunities, the employers can be very picky, and their criteria are often arbitrary and opaque. I think even on the Bay Area, companies are more picky about who they hire than candidates are picky about what company they join.
        user5994461 8y ago
        Companies usually want people who are cheap, malleable and competent enough. That's a safe profile. I couldn't agree more on companies being picky. My wife interviewed for a company last year, they said that they interviewed more than a hundred candidate so far in the year and they didn't hire anyone. It's fair to say that they are not recruiting for real.

minimaxir 8y ago

In disclosure, all the companies were upfront about the full interview process. That said, in this job market, there isn't much leverage to say no to a prospective job or to make demands of the interview process unless you're already a rockstar.

rhapsodic 8y ago
>That said, in this job market, there isn't much leverage to say no to a prospective job or to make demands of the interview process unless you're already a rockstar. I don't consider myself a rockstar, or even a prima donna type who would make "demands" of the interview process. But I'm confident I could find a job fairly quickly without jumping through ridiculous hoops just to get an initial response from a company. From my perspective, the software developer market is still a seller's market. YMMV, of course. Maybe you're in an area where there are more qualified developers than available jobs, and employers have the upper hand to the extent they can pull off bullshit like this.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ryandrake 8y ago
This is a great point that gets lost because of the widely held “shortage of engineers” myth. The hiring market is strongly an employer’s market. There is far more talent out there seeking relatively few jobs, so employers can dictate terms pretty much absolutely. If they require a 5 day homework, then it’s “homework or GTFO”. If they require whiteboard hazing, it’s “whiteboard or GTFO”. The last real employee’s-market we had was in the late 90’s!
- markbnj 8y ago
  > The hiring market is strongly an employer’s market. There is far more talent out there seeking relatively few jobs, so employers can dictate terms pretty much absolutely. Wow, are you in the U.S.? This is pretty much the exact opposite of my experience and perception. I'm sure it must vary somewhat based on your specialty and what kind of work you do.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    Depends on where you live and how much you ask for. There are entire deserts where there isn't a tech company in a hundred miles around. Even in the most active tech hub, it may be difficult to find a new job, assuming you care about things like work hours, health coverage or a moderate commute.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      Even in areas seen as having many employment opportunities, the employers can be very picky, and their criteria are often arbitrary and opaque. I think even on the Bay Area, companies are more picky about who they hire than candidates are picky about what company they join.
      - user5994461 8y ago
        Companies usually want people who are cheap, malleable and competent enough. That's a safe profile. I couldn't agree more on companies being picky. My wife interviewed for a company last year, they said that they interviewed more than a hundred candidate so far in the year and they didn't hire anyone. It's fair to say that they are not recruiting for real.