4 ms·

Both reddit and hacker news would be much better off with no voting at all. Strong moderators are the only thing I've ever seen keep online forums at a high qu

Both reddit and hacker news would be much better off with no voting at all. Strong moderators are the only thing I've ever seen keep online forums at a high quality level. Voting is the weakest kind of moderation.

remir 8y ago
The problem with the upvote/downvote system is that it's too simplistic. If you have an opinion that goes against the status quo, a lot of people will downvote your comment simply because they disagree with what you said on some emotional level. Of course, past a certain number of downvotes, you post will be buried, so you have basically an echo chamber.
- posterboy 8y ago
  That might have it's use, too. Echochamber sounds bad, resonant frequency response sounds neutral, and it's needed for harmony. The real problem then is kakophonie, noise, and choosing the instrument to play on with a nice timbre, noise floor, etc. The internet is large and finding the right venue and audience is difficult. There is value in being told to have hit the wrong tone. This is why shorter messages and twitter are important, it allows a finer grained ... censorship? (Zensur in German also means grade, shool mark). That's why many people, I at least, discuss online, looking for light conversation, so emotional feedback should be welcome as ''the basic unit of exchange in communication''.
  - remir 8y ago
    People can sense when there's harmony in music, but what about an opinion? To me, the real problem is lack of emotional distance. I was in a thread where a woman declared that all men are inherently abusive/violent toward women. I pointed out to her that this is not only a ridiculous statement, but also quite insulting. How can we make such sweeping generalization? I was down-voted and told that my feeling didn't matter. Soon, other angry people joined in and my reply was buried. My comment went against a certain narrative. But did I "hit the wrong tone"? I don't think so.
    - posterboy 8y ago
      > To me, the real problem is lack of emotional distance. I don't understand. True, objectivity is an ideal. But language is inherently subjective. At that your annecdotal evidence, for example. Ironic, isn't it?
      - remir 8y ago
        It's not ironic. My feeling don't matter in the discussion with the women, she just said my feeling don't matter, probably to invalidate what I said to her.
        posterboy 8y ago
        > ridiculous > insulting Of course you appealed to emotion. Also you assumed her gender, big mistake on the internet.
gboudrias 8y ago
I strongly disagree. Whether the points are displayed or not, voting is what revolutionized forums. I find voting forums almost universally better than non-voting ones, because voting sorts by relevance by default. I still dread the (lack of) content quality that I've come to associate with phpbb forums (and their ilk).
jandrese 8y ago
"High Quality Level" is a relative measure though. It's really easy for a heavily moderated discussion forum to become an echo chamber for the moderator's views.

remir 8y ago

The problem with the upvote/downvote system is that it's too simplistic. If you have an opinion that goes against the status quo, a lot of people will downvote your comment simply because they disagree with what you said on some emotional level. Of course, past a certain number of downvotes, you post will be buried, so you have basically an echo chamber.

posterboy 8y ago
That might have it's use, too. Echochamber sounds bad, resonant frequency response sounds neutral, and it's needed for harmony. The real problem then is kakophonie, noise, and choosing the instrument to play on with a nice timbre, noise floor, etc. The internet is large and finding the right venue and audience is difficult. There is value in being told to have hit the wrong tone. This is why shorter messages and twitter are important, it allows a finer grained ... censorship? (Zensur in German also means grade, shool mark). That's why many people, I at least, discuss online, looking for light conversation, so emotional feedback should be welcome as ''the basic unit of exchange in communication''.
- remir 8y ago
  People can sense when there's harmony in music, but what about an opinion? To me, the real problem is lack of emotional distance. I was in a thread where a woman declared that all men are inherently abusive/violent toward women. I pointed out to her that this is not only a ridiculous statement, but also quite insulting. How can we make such sweeping generalization? I was down-voted and told that my feeling didn't matter. Soon, other angry people joined in and my reply was buried. My comment went against a certain narrative. But did I "hit the wrong tone"? I don't think so.
  - posterboy 8y ago
    > To me, the real problem is lack of emotional distance. I don't understand. True, objectivity is an ideal. But language is inherently subjective. At that your annecdotal evidence, for example. Ironic, isn't it?
    - remir 8y ago
      It's not ironic. My feeling don't matter in the discussion with the women, she just said my feeling don't matter, probably to invalidate what I said to her.
      - posterboy 8y ago
        > ridiculous > insulting Of course you appealed to emotion. Also you assumed her gender, big mistake on the internet.

gboudrias 8y ago

I strongly disagree. Whether the points are displayed or not, voting is what revolutionized forums. I find voting forums almost universally better than non-voting ones, because voting sorts by relevance by default. I still dread the (lack of) content quality that I've come to associate with phpbb forums (and their ilk).

jandrese 8y ago

"High Quality Level" is a relative measure though. It's really easy for a heavily moderated discussion forum to become an echo chamber for the moderator's views.