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I can imagine an environment in which less than 10% of the posts are toxic, yet it feels toxic to one person. I’m at a conference between sessions, and there a

I can imagine an environment in which less than 10% of the posts are toxic, yet it feels toxic to one person. I’m at a conference between sessions, and there are small groups of people standing around, discussing the latest developments at breakneck speed. Back and forth. Talking a mile a minute. Saying half an idea out loud, and letting others fill in the blanks. Tons of jargon and inside references I don’t understand. I squeeze into one of the larger circles, and I would like to join the conversation, at least to understand what they are talking about, and perhaps add something to the conversation, if I can. I finally see an opening, and ask a question. Each person in the group is suddenly silent and stares at me for a few seconds. Finally one person says, “RTFM noob”. Everyone stifles a laugh, and the conversation picks up where it left off. Count the number of “posts” in this example. Hundreds, or maybe low thousands. How many were toxic? One. Doing the math… Yeah. That’s much less than 10%. Does this feel toxic to me? Oh yeah. Does it feel toxic to everyone else? Some would say yes. Some would agree with you and say, “No. This does not feel like a toxic wasteland to me. I’ll admit, there’s a small amount of toxic discussion, but at least it’s much less toxic than other conferences I have attended.” My point is that you can have a forum where less than 10% of the comments are toxic, and yet that forum can feel very toxic to some of the people. So your 10% challenge does not prove anything.

TedPetrou 9y ago
I agree with nearly all of what you said but that wasn't the point of the challenge. I completely agree that many individuals experience negative events on Stack Overflow and would compassionately listen to them. The only thing I am challenging is the notion, that on a whole, SO is a toxic wasteland. That is it. The reason 10% was set as a threshold is that many people actually believe it to be higher than that. 10% is an absurdly high number of toxic posts and the real number is going to be far lower. I value authentic statements with accurate data to the highest degree. I hope that we can get some real research on this topic with more accurate data which can only help to improve outcomes.
- kangnkodos 9y ago
  On reddit, it looks like someone had some data which calculated that the number of toxic comments on SO is about 1%. That sounds about right to me. But even 1% toxic comments correctly still makes it a toxic wasteland to the people who have been on the receiving end of those toxic comments, and to those who don't enjoy seeing others treated like that.
  - kangnkodos 9y ago
    I mean imagine that you had a job where you were constantly having short conversations with people from all over your company. I'm your boss, and I call you into a meeting to let you know that you are on the edge of being fired because of your toxic comments. Some of your conversations have resulted in coworkers crying and going home early. But I'm willing to give you one more chance. In the meeting you tell me, "Hey, relax. It's not true that 10% of my conversations have resulted in coworkers going home early. I can prove that it only happens in 1% of my conversations. And 1% is fine, so get off my back." I would tell you to just pack your desk right now.

TedPetrou 9y ago

I agree with nearly all of what you said but that wasn't the point of the challenge. I completely agree that many individuals experience negative events on Stack Overflow and would compassionately listen to them. The only thing I am challenging is the notion, that on a whole, SO is a toxic wasteland. That is it. The reason 10% was set as a threshold is that many people actually believe it to be higher than that. 10% is an absurdly high number of toxic posts and the real number is going to be far lower. I value authentic statements with accurate data to the highest degree. I hope that we can get some real research on this topic with more accurate data which can only help to improve outcomes.

kangnkodos 9y ago
On reddit, it looks like someone had some data which calculated that the number of toxic comments on SO is about 1%. That sounds about right to me. But even 1% toxic comments correctly still makes it a toxic wasteland to the people who have been on the receiving end of those toxic comments, and to those who don't enjoy seeing others treated like that.
- kangnkodos 9y ago
  I mean imagine that you had a job where you were constantly having short conversations with people from all over your company. I'm your boss, and I call you into a meeting to let you know that you are on the edge of being fired because of your toxic comments. Some of your conversations have resulted in coworkers crying and going home early. But I'm willing to give you one more chance. In the meeting you tell me, "Hey, relax. It's not true that 10% of my conversations have resulted in coworkers going home early. I can prove that it only happens in 1% of my conversations. And 1% is fine, so get off my back." I would tell you to just pack your desk right now.