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Just because Apple is the first doesn't mean there won't be others. Maybe others have not materialized because the upfront cost of updating clangd was judged to

Just because Apple is the first doesn't mean there won't be others. Maybe others have not materialized because the upfront cost of updating clangd was judged too high. JSON-RPC has several alternatives that very large software companies have vested interests in: gRPC and XPC. You seem more knowledgeable of these technologies than I am, though. It just seems to me a good thing that 1) Apple, and consequently, all iOS and macOS developers will be using clangd, and 2) Apple is putting significant effort into improving clangd. I'm not sure why any of that news or optimism needs to be quenched.

DannyBee 9y ago
My point was precisely that plenty of languages have LSP implementations at this point, an f even in those, nobody has cared much to try to find an alternative to json rpc. As for 2, all I'll say is based on history in llvm projects, I'm not anywhere near as optimistic as you. The history here is simply not one of all great things. The PR is, but the reality is much more mixed (some really great things, some really not so great). So while I certainly am hopeful, it's definitely not the unbridled optimism everyone displays here.
- kenferry 9y ago
  You don't think apple's support of llvm and clang has been important to the project? That's REALLY pushing it.
  - DannyBee 9y ago
    That's not what i said at all. I said some things have been really great, some really not so great. This isn't even a controversial view among long-time llvmers. Heck, last time i asked him (a few months ago), even Chris Lattner agreed with my view, and he used to run his stuff at Apple, so i don't think it's unreasonable. I think it's perfectly okay to be cautiously optimistic instead of fawningly happy. Do you actually have data or a real argument you'd like to use to suggest otherwise (IE that it's been all overwhelmingly positive?)
- r4nt3r 9y ago
  While I agree that not everything is always great, I'd say the same for our own contributions ;) I've definitely let patches unreviewed for way too long due to internal priorities, and have gotten my share of shit at conferences for that... In this case, the collaboration with Apple and Ericsson on the underlying architecture has been going on for a while, and while not everybody always agrees on priorities and design details, I'm thrilled to see Apple double down on their involvement here!

DannyBee 9y ago

My point was precisely that plenty of languages have LSP implementations at this point, an f even in those, nobody has cared much to try to find an alternative to json rpc. As for 2, all I'll say is based on history in llvm projects, I'm not anywhere near as optimistic as you. The history here is simply not one of all great things. The PR is, but the reality is much more mixed (some really great things, some really not so great). So while I certainly am hopeful, it's definitely not the unbridled optimism everyone displays here.

kenferry 9y ago
You don't think apple's support of llvm and clang has been important to the project? That's REALLY pushing it.
- DannyBee 9y ago
  That's not what i said at all. I said some things have been really great, some really not so great. This isn't even a controversial view among long-time llvmers. Heck, last time i asked him (a few months ago), even Chris Lattner agreed with my view, and he used to run his stuff at Apple, so i don't think it's unreasonable. I think it's perfectly okay to be cautiously optimistic instead of fawningly happy. Do you actually have data or a real argument you'd like to use to suggest otherwise (IE that it's been all overwhelmingly positive?)
r4nt3r 9y ago
While I agree that not everything is always great, I'd say the same for our own contributions ;) I've definitely let patches unreviewed for way too long due to internal priorities, and have gotten my share of shit at conferences for that... In this case, the collaboration with Apple and Ericsson on the underlying architecture has been going on for a while, and while not everybody always agrees on priorities and design details, I'm thrilled to see Apple double down on their involvement here!