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> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This is not the fault of the hardware, it's the fault of the softwar

> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This is not the fault of the hardware, it's the fault of the software. I want more screen space, and I'm not asking for a square laptop and I'm not wanting my screen any taller than it is. Browsers should optimize for vertical space and let you reuse your horizontal space. Tree-style or vertical tabs are perfect for this. But for some reason, all browser vendors follow each other, don't build alternative options (or count on the community to do it if they even allow that), and presume they have got it right with tabs on the top. It's like browsers have become so hard to build and maintain by the big four that having more than one way to view things is disallowed or relegated to extensions. I've said it before, I want my browser like my IDE. I want to move and dock windows in a MDI, and I want to move around the web like a power user. Yet we're all subject to the lowest common denominator of users because, I suppose, maintaining more than one UI paradigm is too difficult and they've all settled on the best apparently.

flixic 9y ago
> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This easily boils down to the fact that our language is horizontal, and we don't read rotated text very well. It informs design decisions, creating horizontal tab bars, menu bars, navigations, etc.
- kodablah 9y ago
  Nobody is asking for rotated text. There are many applications that have mini dockable assistant windows on either side of the main document window. Our file system browsers list items vertically, so can our browsers. Hell, most do with bookmarks, just not active tabs. It's more a problem of group think and the trend towards reduced customization that causes this, not language direction.
- adrusi 9y ago
  Vertically organized tabs use more pixels, but in addition to demanding less valuable real estate (when in fullscreen at least), also let you have more tabs open at once without scrolling the tab bar.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Or in some common cases it fails to inform the design of tab bars and other user interfaces, since you can stack many more tabs along the left and right edges than along the top or bottom edges, and you can allocate enough room to distinguish their labels. Emacs with tabbed windows: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/HyperTIESAuthoring.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/HyperTIESAuth... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU It sucks that "standard" tabs are always along the top edge: you can only fit a few of them, and their labels are clipped so you can't distinguish them, and you can't do anything about that. You should be able to move them to any edge and adjust them according to the task, tab count, label size, screen dimensions, and personal preferences. Ideally, users should be able to choose which edge and how far along each edge to place the tab, adjust the tab's size and rotate its orientation, iconify and expand windows to and from their tabs, and easily group windows together by their tabs in rows or columns as desired (including docking inside other windows, or nesting tabs in 2D tree outlines using different edges and orientations at each level). "Direct Manipulation" PostScript stack editing with tabbed windows: http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/97 http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/97 Dragging tabs between different window edges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4
narimiran 9y ago
> Tree-style or vertical tabs are perfect for this. But for some reason, all browser vendors follow each other, don't build alternative options (or count on the community to do it if they even allow that) Vivaldi has in the options (without any 3rd party add-on) a possibility to put your tab bar either on top, left, right, or bottom.
- kodablah 9y ago
  Right, several non-major browsers do this with major browser's rendering engines (I wrote one: https://cretz.github.io/doogie/ https://cretz.github.io/doogie/). I am criticizing the big four browser vendors specifically as opposed to the community.

flixic 9y ago

> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This easily boils down to the fact that our language is horizontal, and we don't read rotated text very well. It informs design decisions, creating horizontal tab bars, menu bars, navigations, etc.

kodablah 9y ago
Nobody is asking for rotated text. There are many applications that have mini dockable assistant windows on either side of the main document window. Our file system browsers list items vertically, so can our browsers. Hell, most do with bookmarks, just not active tabs. It's more a problem of group think and the trend towards reduced customization that causes this, not language direction.
adrusi 9y ago
Vertically organized tabs use more pixels, but in addition to demanding less valuable real estate (when in fullscreen at least), also let you have more tabs open at once without scrolling the tab bar.
DonHopkins 9y ago
Or in some common cases it fails to inform the design of tab bars and other user interfaces, since you can stack many more tabs along the left and right edges than along the top or bottom edges, and you can allocate enough room to distinguish their labels. Emacs with tabbed windows: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/HyperTIESAuthoring.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/HyperTIESAuth... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU It sucks that "standard" tabs are always along the top edge: you can only fit a few of them, and their labels are clipped so you can't distinguish them, and you can't do anything about that. You should be able to move them to any edge and adjust them according to the task, tab count, label size, screen dimensions, and personal preferences. Ideally, users should be able to choose which edge and how far along each edge to place the tab, adjust the tab's size and rotate its orientation, iconify and expand windows to and from their tabs, and easily group windows together by their tabs in rows or columns as desired (including docking inside other windows, or nesting tabs in 2D tree outlines using different edges and orientations at each level). "Direct Manipulation" PostScript stack editing with tabbed windows: http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/97 http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/97 Dragging tabs between different window edges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4

narimiran 9y ago

> Tree-style or vertical tabs are perfect for this. But for some reason, all browser vendors follow each other, don't build alternative options (or count on the community to do it if they even allow that) Vivaldi has in the options (without any 3rd party add-on) a possibility to put your tab bar either on top, left, right, or bottom.

kodablah 9y ago
Right, several non-major browsers do this with major browser's rendering engines (I wrote one: https://cretz.github.io/doogie/ https://cretz.github.io/doogie/). I am criticizing the big four browser vendors specifically as opposed to the community.