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The entire reason that AMD hardware isn't considered a viable alternative to NVIDIA is that it doesn't run CUDA, which is going to be true of these custom chips

by opencl 9y ago

The entire reason that AMD hardware isn't considered a viable alternative to NVIDIA is that it doesn't run CUDA, which is going to be true of these custom chips too. The chips FB are working on are probably far more similar to Google's TPUs than anything NVIDIA makes though.

flamedoge 9y ago
So the problem is programmability
Symmetry 9y ago
For researchers, yes. At the scale Facebook and Google operate at the lack of CUDA isn't much of a problem. The big difference is that AMD's GPUs only work on vectors whereas Google's TPUs (and NVidia's latest card) can work on matrices directly for a large increase in throughput.
- p1esk 9y ago
  Most DL researchers don't care about CUDA, they use higher level frameworks (Tensorflow, Pytorch, Caffe, etc). The frameworks can be extended to support other backends (e.g. OpenCL). If someone builds their own hardware, provides integrated support for that hardware in Tensorflow, and demonstrates speed advantages, people will use it.
danielh96 9y ago
Why do you say that? Because they already have a large code base that would be too much work to move over? Or superior features in CUDA? This is actually related to some ongoing research for me, be very interested in any insight.
- p1esk 9y ago
  Because there's no compelling reason not to use CUDA.
tsomctl 9y ago
This is something that I've wondered about. There is nothing about Tensorflow (for example) that is specific to CUDA. Why doesn't AMD dedicate a couple of engineers to port it? They don't even have to do a complete job. Only about half of the Tensorflow operations are used for most models.
- patrickg_zill 9y ago
  If they make CUDA the industry standard by porting it to AMD, and then Nvidia is still able to control the standard, over the long term AMD will always be in the position of having to catch up.
  - jandrese 9y ago
    I think the GP is suggesting AMD port TensorFlow to OpenCL to break up the CUDA monopoly.
  - shmerl 9y ago
    No need, there is already an industry standard that works across all hardware.
- sanxiyn 9y ago
  AMD does. https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/tensorflow https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/tensorflow

by opencl 9y ago

flamedoge 9y ago

So the problem is programmability

Symmetry 9y ago

For researchers, yes. At the scale Facebook and Google operate at the lack of CUDA isn't much of a problem. The big difference is that AMD's GPUs only work on vectors whereas Google's TPUs (and NVidia's latest card) can work on matrices directly for a large increase in throughput.

p1esk 9y ago
Most DL researchers don't care about CUDA, they use higher level frameworks (Tensorflow, Pytorch, Caffe, etc). The frameworks can be extended to support other backends (e.g. OpenCL). If someone builds their own hardware, provides integrated support for that hardware in Tensorflow, and demonstrates speed advantages, people will use it.

danielh96 9y ago

Why do you say that? Because they already have a large code base that would be too much work to move over? Or superior features in CUDA? This is actually related to some ongoing research for me, be very interested in any insight.

p1esk 9y ago
Because there's no compelling reason not to use CUDA.

tsomctl 9y ago

This is something that I've wondered about. There is nothing about Tensorflow (for example) that is specific to CUDA. Why doesn't AMD dedicate a couple of engineers to port it? They don't even have to do a complete job. Only about half of the Tensorflow operations are used for most models.

patrickg_zill 9y ago
If they make CUDA the industry standard by porting it to AMD, and then Nvidia is still able to control the standard, over the long term AMD will always be in the position of having to catch up.
- jandrese 9y ago
  I think the GP is suggesting AMD port TensorFlow to OpenCL to break up the CUDA monopoly.
- shmerl 9y ago
  No need, there is already an industry standard that works across all hardware.
sanxiyn 9y ago
AMD does. https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/tensorflow https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/tensorflow