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I don't want to pass judgement on your coding exercise, and it certainly seems fishy with the contract, however... I would point out that on the hiring side, e

I don't want to pass judgement on your coding exercise, and it certainly seems fishy with the contract, however... I would point out that on the hiring side, evaluating a submitted project in a way that can differentiate between good and great candidates, and that the reviewers can understand well enough to get the signal they need, is very difficult. Because of this, I know several times we have asked candidates to build a simplified version of something that we have already built internally, where we understand the problem space deeply. We only ever do something we have already built, as that's the whole point, and we typically simplify it, although that might not be obvious from the outside. We also cap the time at 1-3 hours depending on the task as we care about evaluating the candidate, not getting a complete/usable/production ready solution, and so that it's not dependent on how much time a particular candidate can spend on the problem, which would introduce biases. This isn't perfect, and we try not to do this, and to use problems that are obviously toy problems, but sometimes it's necessary.

hvidgaard 9y ago
That is fine, just be upfront about it. Still require a contract for it is reeking of trying to get work for "free". If you have it running in production, and use it because you understand it thoroughly, it shouldn't matter what the candidate comes up with. Any new insight he might bring you can always incorporate with your own code. In any case none of the code is expected to be used in production, and if it turns out you want to, it's probably the candidate you want to hire anyway.
- gowld 9y ago
  > Any new insight he might bring you can always incorporate with your own code Only if the contract is signed.
  - hvidgaard 9y ago
    If you want to use the candidates code, then you have to have a signed contract. Nothing prevents you from looking at the code, and write your own version of it.
- danpalmer 9y ago
  Yep I agree. Just a minor bit of friendly feedback on your comment, I hope you don't mind... You said "Any new insight he might bring". To refer to a hypothetical developer as "he" contributes to the stereotype of developers being male, and that can make those who don't conform to that feel less welcome in the community. I'm sure this wasn't a conscious decision, and I know it's something I slip up with frequently, but I'm trying not to do it, and I think writing that is more inclusive is more persuasive to more people and generally better.
nwellinghoff 9y ago
this, just have them do a small subset of something you already do. It tells you so much. I also tell the candidate that if they complete it and it works they are guaranteed to be hired at some level. At the end of the day if you can't show me your work on a open source project, or demo me something you made, there is no way for me to know you can actually build something until you do! Especially true for junior level positions!

hvidgaard 9y ago

That is fine, just be upfront about it. Still require a contract for it is reeking of trying to get work for "free". If you have it running in production, and use it because you understand it thoroughly, it shouldn't matter what the candidate comes up with. Any new insight he might bring you can always incorporate with your own code. In any case none of the code is expected to be used in production, and if it turns out you want to, it's probably the candidate you want to hire anyway.

gowld 9y ago
> Any new insight he might bring you can always incorporate with your own code Only if the contract is signed.
- hvidgaard 9y ago
  If you want to use the candidates code, then you have to have a signed contract. Nothing prevents you from looking at the code, and write your own version of it.
danpalmer 9y ago
Yep I agree. Just a minor bit of friendly feedback on your comment, I hope you don't mind... You said "Any new insight he might bring". To refer to a hypothetical developer as "he" contributes to the stereotype of developers being male, and that can make those who don't conform to that feel less welcome in the community. I'm sure this wasn't a conscious decision, and I know it's something I slip up with frequently, but I'm trying not to do it, and I think writing that is more inclusive is more persuasive to more people and generally better.

nwellinghoff 9y ago

this, just have them do a small subset of something you already do. It tells you so much. I also tell the candidate that if they complete it and it works they are guaranteed to be hired at some level. At the end of the day if you can't show me your work on a open source project, or demo me something you made, there is no way for me to know you can actually build something until you do! Especially true for junior level positions!