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Whoa, this seems a bit unfair. What feels like aeons ago, python-land created the huge monolithic monster, the Zope framework, which was absolutely great at th
by pcc 16y ago
Whoa, this seems a bit unfair.
What feels like aeons ago, python-land created the huge monolithic monster, the Zope framework, which was absolutely great at the time. Then people were bitten by writing classes that would unexpectedly manifest some behaviour "as if by magic." The problems became (1) determining whether you would one day out of the blue have code "act weird", (2) figuring out where this behaviour was coming from.
Save to say, many people got bit/burned/scarred. Lessons were learned. There is a fair bit of cross-polination going on; I can't think of any python framework that has not tried to learn from this, and also from the successes/challenges of others (and that includes those of Rails btw).
So when a "battle scarred veteran" makes a terse statement such as this, I don't think by any means it expresses a "better-than-thou" attitude. But you can understand why there might be (rightly or wrongly) an anticipation of pain to come.
When pythonistas look as Rails (for example) and say "hmmn, this pattern looks sort of familiar, wonder how they're going to avoid that type of pain we had", surely this is neither unfair nor over critical, it's just part of the technical dialogue that ultimately advances everyone's "state of the art."
And I don't think anybody in the python world really claims to have the "one true answer." Rather it's more the case of "there is no one true answer, only many flawed attempts; so if you think you've found nirvana, be prepared for some disappointment down the road."
Generally people acknowledge that it's a difficult problem and that we're all dealing with variations of the same issues, irrespective of language or framework. A bit like a balloon; you can squeeze it in one place to make it "thinner" there, but likely it will pop out some place else.
- icey 16y agoI probably wouldn't have had such a strong reaction if the comment hadn't started with "And based on the author's previous Django and ORM posts" as though the author is incapable of making technical decisions because he didn't like some aspect of Django previously. Between that, and the regular stream of ridicule about Rails , Node or just about anything else not Python it just seriously rubs me the wrong way. I don't see anyone changing my opinion of that; nor am I asking them to.
- pcc 16y agoI have seen (for virtually every type of interesting technology ever) two classes of people (at least): 1. People who've somewhat recently discovered it, and realized how powerful it is. Not really surprising to see that people in this category would argue their tech of choice over next to anything out there; both because they're enamoured with what they've discovered, and also because it helps validate their choice. 2. People who've gotten past stage 1 and realized that everything has limitations. These people are far more pragmatic and will tend to seek the best tool for the job. Sometimes what they say may appear to be acerbic, often this is because it attempts to express the "there is no magic bullet"-conclusion that they've reached. Can guarantee you that Jesse does not fall into group 1. Also, I think in the above if you substitute "tech" for "community" the same will hold true. Ultimately these are all just tools in the toolbox and people in group 2 acknowledge this irrespective language/framework/community.