8 ms·

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with t

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with the most awkward hiring process. Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. I find this trend especially surprising considering that the U.S. has at-will employment where you can fire anyone anytime (at least that is my understanding, I'm from Germany). Why not get people at a desk quickly and evaluate them on the job?

abhinai 8y ago
Just that firing someone is legal does not mean it is easy. Especially if you have been working closely with the said person for months. And then there are people who are very nice human beings but their performance just isn't good enough. Firing them is hard and pretty bad for team morale. I'd much rather do that extra work during the hiring process than have to deal with a bad hire later.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Money where your mouth is; are you willing to pay for it? Would you pay the candidate a reasonable sum, certainly over a hundred Euros a day (after tax etc.) for their pre-interview homework? Given that the cost of a bad hire is orders of magnitude more than that, this seems like a really good deal for the company.
  - abhinai 8y ago
    Absolutely. As you say, spending a few hundreds bucks is way cheaper than wasting almost half a day of the candidate and our team when we bring someone in and it ends in a no. For remote candidates it makes even more sense since we end up spending thousands of dollars in travel costs when we fly them in for onsite interviews.
  - gaius 8y ago
    are you willing to pay for it? Would you pay the candidate a reasonable sum This would be additional income complicating tax, and many companies restrict employees from taking on outside paid work without approval. No matter how you slice it, these multi-hour homeworks are a stupid idea. And the real reason for them is to discourage candidates to justify getting indentured labour instead. Or to discriminate against older workers with more existing time commitments.
    - EliRivers 8y ago
      This would be additional income complicating tax, and many companies restrict employees from taking on outside paid work without approval. It seems wrong to reject a good idea because other bad idea will interfere with it. Maybe I'm fortunate; I take extra irregular work in the sum of about 30 days a year, and at the end of the year HMRC and I settle up very simply and easily. I couldn't imagine taking a contract that said I couldn't do any other work; it's by no means uncommon in the UK for people to have extra part-time work that fits around their main job. I think we shouldn't reject a good idea - paying people if you want them to do multi-day interviews - just because other bad ideas (tax systems that can't handle earning extra cash, employers who view their staff as property) will make it awkward for some people.
      - gaius 8y ago
        couldn't imagine taking a contract that said I couldn't do any other work It’s usually about avoiding conflicts of interest - you can generally get the box ticked easily enough to do something unrelated to your job with them. But “doing an audition at a competitor” is unlikely to be signed off! But even so - these homework assignments are stupid, and discriminatory on factors unrelated to job performance, and no other industry does it. In fact they yield worse candidates because quality candidates don’t tolerate this kind of nonsense. And how would this work - you take vacation to do your trial period? You quit to do a trial period knowing it’s still an interview not even an offer?
        EliRivers 8y ago
  - walshemj 8y ago
    A Hundred euros lol far to low id want 500 a day for a 3-6 month contract for just 3 days id want more.
- danielh 8y ago
  Firing someone is always hard, no doubt about it. But I disagree that it's bad for team morale to fire a nice underperformer. In fact, I've seen the opposite happen, where having to drag along a team member was a reason for people leaving. IMHO, hiring based on homework is no guarantee that you won't end up with a bad hire anyway. It is just another imperfect data point to base your decision on, but one that comes at the cost of massively reducing your number of candidates.
- xab9 8y ago
  Lately most of the companies I had an interview with wanted me to be a contractor (most of the time with all the benefits of being a contractor removed, from a law standpoint this is possible), this is a common practice around here, not just out of caution, but for tax evasion as well. There's not much I can do, it's so common a practice nowadays (literally all of my team members are in a similar construction and we are working on fixed projects from nine to six) that with my next workplace I will do the same.
- Clubber 8y ago
  Honestly, keeping someone around who is under par is bad for morale because your other teammates have to make up for the difference. It is hard though, but it's business and if you aren't up for it, you probably shouldn't be in that position.
raducu 8y ago
All of the complaining is just a tantrum fit of an emotionally immature industry who, just like a spoiled child has had it very easy so far. "Why aren't there 100x more people than I actually need (because we only hire top 1%, right?) with 100 years of working experience with this technology that I just dreamt last night that want to work for free?"
- cornholio 8y ago
  Developers have a similar attitude, despite currently being one of the most privileged segments of the workforce save perhaps investment bankers. We have a straightforward professional path that does not require massive debt and burning half of our youth doing academic busywork and entry level drudgery - like it happens in almost any other professional field with similar compensation. The industry requirement to prove that you can produce software is not unreasonable, coding is a craft and selecting developers is like selecting painters: ability to bullshit your way through an interview is orthogonal to the skill.
  - threatofrain 8y ago
    I might assert that what developers have is not a privilege. A privilege is something granted out of generosity or grace by another party, perhaps even undue (and hence the grace). What developers have is some "game", which makes them a "player". As soon as they lose their game, they cease to be players. Their relation to the game is exactly their value and nothing less. Tech employers are higher level players who know that the economy takes no excuses, and they will trim the fat, so to speak, of anyone who cannot contribute to their gamesmanship. Generally, in most industries, seniority is respected in and of itself. But in software, you see disgraced older people who didn't play the game right, and you wonder if they are to decline away out of sight. That suggests this is not grace granted by another party. Does that look more like a privilege granted (by whom? charitable businesses?), or a loser in a cold and harsh game? I see more question marks over the futures of software people than I see in other industries where other peers have gone. In other industries, I feel there has been more of a multi-factored consideration for the generational passing of the torch. In software, I feel everyone is always in a sink or swim test, and I think older people sink a little more.
icantdrive55 8y ago
I imagine it's hard to hire programmers. When I was younger, I felt a written test should be the only factor in hiring. If you can pass a very hard test in your speciality(almost any field); you get the job. It's bypasses all the nepotism, and subpar people with seemingly spectacular resumes. It's a fair way of hiring. Plus--there's a lot of diamonds in the mix, who didn't go to fancy schools, but are hungry, and get any job done. I've given up on that because I have never seen just a test used extensively anywhere, except maybe the armed forces. Then again, George Bush jumped past a few hundred pilots because of his connections. I'm now down to hire a local applicant for a few weeks. (A local applicant!) See how they work out. And no--you don't want to drag a guy/woman across the country for a temp job, but hiring someone near the job site seems fair? If the local does well in a few weeks--they get the job. I've seen so many companies/entities feel they to hire nationally, and that new exotic employee is just an average dude with a fancy resume. The company stooges are happy because no one got their ego bruised, but the company just hired a foxey resume. Now I'm thinking about it--there's probally a reason progressive companies make people jump through hoops. I imagine the industry hired too many subpar employees by just looking at the carefully crafted resume. So, if I was hiring for a large company, I would make them jump through hoops too? Or, try to talk the owner into hiring just on test performance? After all my rambling, guess spending a weekend, at the library, reading the Cracking the Coding Interview, by Iforgothername is not bad advice?
cooervo 8y ago
Also from Germany. Last time someone told me "we just can't get enought decent devs" was a company with the worst hiring process I have ever seen. They wanted me to build an app, with backend and frontend, and design (the design had to be "beautiful"), test it, all in under a weekend while I still was working fulltime at some other job, and I told them, they knew. It was a Deutsch company. The name is GuteFre.The worst take home test ever, of course I didn't do it.
- technics256 8y ago
  Lol as an American living in Germany I totally empathize with you, it made me smile. Germany also says it suffers from a lack of developers, but in my opinion what they don't say is that they need more developers to treat poorly and with a low salary.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    That's the same in America. You see job posting like: Developer position, independent contractor, 5+ years experience Erlang, COBOL, Salesforce, Active Directory, IBM Mainframe, and Java required. Starting salary: $40,000. And they're whining that there is a great developer shortage in America but they did get some offers from overseas that claim to have those skills, if they could only get a H1B...
    - pluto9 8y ago
      I don't know why you're being downvoted. This is exactly how employers abuse the H1B system. Give an employer absolute power over an immigrant worker with no connections, support network, or other job options and their residency status on the line--what could possibly go wrong?
      - jandrese 8y ago
        To be fair, such an employer usually can't get a H1B these days. Which is probably for the best because those people were probably not completely truthful when they described their tech experience. There is also an filtering effect on job sites where good jobs get snapped up right away and disappear from the site, while delusional prospects concentrate over time, causing people to think that those sites have nothing but garbage offers.
always_good 8y ago
I wonder how much of the shortage is due to there only being a relatively small portion of jobs that developers actually want. Every time I've worked at a small company that had obvious perks (using a cool language, building a cool product), we had a bunch of applicants to pick from. We could be picky. But the few times I worked at a company on soul-sucking work like internal legacy tools in VBScript for a non-tech company, they were the ones complaining about the great dev shortage. They paid well but you also had to jump through hoops to see what it was which is too typical in our work culture. So if the job description doesn't compel someone to apply, GG.
- dsr_ 8y ago
  I never see a shortage of people applying. I usually see a great shortage of people I want to hire. Mid-level position, asking for 5 years of related experience? 85% of the resumes have no related experience. Fresh out of school, that is. The virtual pile gets much shorter when minimal criteria are applied.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    If you pay 'market rates,' expect the best applicants to be average.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      Yes! If the best thing an employer can come up with to say about their compensation and benefits is that they are “competitive“ this is a huge red flag for any candidate who is (or believes they are) above average.
      - a_imho 8y ago
        Thing is with red flags people can see them left and right, but the need to put food on the table and pay the bills results in color blindness fast.
  - gowld 8y ago
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
> Why not get people at a desk quickly and evaluate them on the job? Because then the other developers would not be able to haze the candidates. Seriously, there's way to much ego involved in development these days.
commandlinefan 8y ago
Especially irritating considering I've dedicated tens of thousands of dollars and six years of my life completing a bachelor's and a master's degree in computer science where people whose entire job was to give me tests and evaluate me on them - maybe you'd like to take their word for it?
- azinman2 8y ago
  If only that was actually reliable to find out who can code well...
- nicolashahn 8y ago
  The problem is, there are people with those degrees who still can't even code fizzbuzz.
  - learc83 8y ago
    I question that bit of common knowledge. I went to a large state school for undergrad and tutored people regularly. By senior year, even the bottom performing students wouldn't have had a problem with fizzbuzz or similar screening problems. We regularly had coding problems much harder than that on tests. Unless there were other factors involved like maybe the pressure caused by the weirdly adversarial hazing process that the tech interview has become.
    - commandlinefan 8y ago
      Yeah, I'd really like to know what colleges these people are coming out of - if they're real colleges and not just paper diploma mills, I'd have to question their accreditation. I didn't go to MIT - I went to a tier-3 (or 4...) school and you couldn't have graduated, with any GPA no matter how low, without having produced dozens of working programming assignments, many much more difficult than any take-home work assignment.
    - marsrover 8y ago
      I personally went to college with someone who could not program at all when he graduated. He made a lot of friends and had a lot of help the entire way through. It's been 7 years and he has never worked as a developer.
lr4444lr 8y ago
Because you have to tip your hand and reveal to your former employer that you're leaving without any real guarantee from your next employer. Until we can get useful credentialing in place, my vote is still with white-boarding, with a preliminary remote coding interview over online tools.
pascalxus 8y ago
When the whole industry complains about not being able to hire developers, it's not due to lack of engineering supply. It's due to lack of hiring ability. Most engineers, quite simply are terrible at interviewing, at least until someone gives some actual training and mentoring, but even that is quite rare.
draw_down 8y ago
> Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. Yeah. I was pretty interested in a place recently, my initial chat with them seemed great and everything, but I lost interest when they gave me the homework test. It's not that I resented the homework -- hell, I've even worked in a place that had a take-home test which typically resulted in a good signal for a candidate's ability. I just didn't feel like doing more programming shit after doing it all day at work. I think to make this idea work for candidates that aren't actively looking, a company needs to make it clear what they're offering beyond "we're hiring". Employers have been so in control for decades now that they think they should just be able to hang that phrase out there and get what they want. (And nobody cares about foosball and free soda as perks anymore, we all know that shit doesn't cost anything.)
odiroot 8y ago
Very well summed up. Can confirm from the PoV of Berlin, Germany. I've been on an interviewing spree in January and February, totaling around 20 companies. There were maybe 3 or 4 with realistic and respectful hiring process. In the end I was left with just one company I actually liked.
- GordonS 8y ago
  Out of interest, what do you define as a 'realistic' hiring process? I end up having to hire new devs for my offshore team in India every 4-6 months or so, and I just haven't found a good way to ensure candidates are any good.

abhinai 8y ago

Just that firing someone is legal does not mean it is easy. Especially if you have been working closely with the said person for months. And then there are people who are very nice human beings but their performance just isn't good enough. Firing them is hard and pretty bad for team morale. I'd much rather do that extra work during the hiring process than have to deal with a bad hire later.

EliRivers 8y ago
Money where your mouth is; are you willing to pay for it? Would you pay the candidate a reasonable sum, certainly over a hundred Euros a day (after tax etc.) for their pre-interview homework? Given that the cost of a bad hire is orders of magnitude more than that, this seems like a really good deal for the company.
- abhinai 8y ago
  Absolutely. As you say, spending a few hundreds bucks is way cheaper than wasting almost half a day of the candidate and our team when we bring someone in and it ends in a no. For remote candidates it makes even more sense since we end up spending thousands of dollars in travel costs when we fly them in for onsite interviews.
- gaius 8y ago
  are you willing to pay for it? Would you pay the candidate a reasonable sum This would be additional income complicating tax, and many companies restrict employees from taking on outside paid work without approval. No matter how you slice it, these multi-hour homeworks are a stupid idea. And the real reason for them is to discourage candidates to justify getting indentured labour instead. Or to discriminate against older workers with more existing time commitments.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    This would be additional income complicating tax, and many companies restrict employees from taking on outside paid work without approval. It seems wrong to reject a good idea because other bad idea will interfere with it. Maybe I'm fortunate; I take extra irregular work in the sum of about 30 days a year, and at the end of the year HMRC and I settle up very simply and easily. I couldn't imagine taking a contract that said I couldn't do any other work; it's by no means uncommon in the UK for people to have extra part-time work that fits around their main job. I think we shouldn't reject a good idea - paying people if you want them to do multi-day interviews - just because other bad ideas (tax systems that can't handle earning extra cash, employers who view their staff as property) will make it awkward for some people.
    - gaius 8y ago
      couldn't imagine taking a contract that said I couldn't do any other work It’s usually about avoiding conflicts of interest - you can generally get the box ticked easily enough to do something unrelated to your job with them. But “doing an audition at a competitor” is unlikely to be signed off! But even so - these homework assignments are stupid, and discriminatory on factors unrelated to job performance, and no other industry does it. In fact they yield worse candidates because quality candidates don’t tolerate this kind of nonsense. And how would this work - you take vacation to do your trial period? You quit to do a trial period knowing it’s still an interview not even an offer?
      - EliRivers 8y ago
- walshemj 8y ago
  A Hundred euros lol far to low id want 500 a day for a 3-6 month contract for just 3 days id want more.
danielh 8y ago
Firing someone is always hard, no doubt about it. But I disagree that it's bad for team morale to fire a nice underperformer. In fact, I've seen the opposite happen, where having to drag along a team member was a reason for people leaving. IMHO, hiring based on homework is no guarantee that you won't end up with a bad hire anyway. It is just another imperfect data point to base your decision on, but one that comes at the cost of massively reducing your number of candidates.
xab9 8y ago
Lately most of the companies I had an interview with wanted me to be a contractor (most of the time with all the benefits of being a contractor removed, from a law standpoint this is possible), this is a common practice around here, not just out of caution, but for tax evasion as well. There's not much I can do, it's so common a practice nowadays (literally all of my team members are in a similar construction and we are working on fixed projects from nine to six) that with my next workplace I will do the same.
Clubber 8y ago
Honestly, keeping someone around who is under par is bad for morale because your other teammates have to make up for the difference. It is hard though, but it's business and if you aren't up for it, you probably shouldn't be in that position.

raducu 8y ago

All of the complaining is just a tantrum fit of an emotionally immature industry who, just like a spoiled child has had it very easy so far. "Why aren't there 100x more people than I actually need (because we only hire top 1%, right?) with 100 years of working experience with this technology that I just dreamt last night that want to work for free?"

cornholio 8y ago
Developers have a similar attitude, despite currently being one of the most privileged segments of the workforce save perhaps investment bankers. We have a straightforward professional path that does not require massive debt and burning half of our youth doing academic busywork and entry level drudgery - like it happens in almost any other professional field with similar compensation. The industry requirement to prove that you can produce software is not unreasonable, coding is a craft and selecting developers is like selecting painters: ability to bullshit your way through an interview is orthogonal to the skill.
- threatofrain 8y ago
  I might assert that what developers have is not a privilege. A privilege is something granted out of generosity or grace by another party, perhaps even undue (and hence the grace). What developers have is some "game", which makes them a "player". As soon as they lose their game, they cease to be players. Their relation to the game is exactly their value and nothing less. Tech employers are higher level players who know that the economy takes no excuses, and they will trim the fat, so to speak, of anyone who cannot contribute to their gamesmanship. Generally, in most industries, seniority is respected in and of itself. But in software, you see disgraced older people who didn't play the game right, and you wonder if they are to decline away out of sight. That suggests this is not grace granted by another party. Does that look more like a privilege granted (by whom? charitable businesses?), or a loser in a cold and harsh game? I see more question marks over the futures of software people than I see in other industries where other peers have gone. In other industries, I feel there has been more of a multi-factored consideration for the generational passing of the torch. In software, I feel everyone is always in a sink or swim test, and I think older people sink a little more.

icantdrive55 8y ago

I imagine it's hard to hire programmers. When I was younger, I felt a written test should be the only factor in hiring. If you can pass a very hard test in your speciality(almost any field); you get the job. It's bypasses all the nepotism, and subpar people with seemingly spectacular resumes. It's a fair way of hiring. Plus--there's a lot of diamonds in the mix, who didn't go to fancy schools, but are hungry, and get any job done. I've given up on that because I have never seen just a test used extensively anywhere, except maybe the armed forces. Then again, George Bush jumped past a few hundred pilots because of his connections. I'm now down to hire a local applicant for a few weeks. (A local applicant!) See how they work out. And no--you don't want to drag a guy/woman across the country for a temp job, but hiring someone near the job site seems fair? If the local does well in a few weeks--they get the job. I've seen so many companies/entities feel they to hire nationally, and that new exotic employee is just an average dude with a fancy resume. The company stooges are happy because no one got their ego bruised, but the company just hired a foxey resume. Now I'm thinking about it--there's probally a reason progressive companies make people jump through hoops. I imagine the industry hired too many subpar employees by just looking at the carefully crafted resume. So, if I was hiring for a large company, I would make them jump through hoops too? Or, try to talk the owner into hiring just on test performance? After all my rambling, guess spending a weekend, at the library, reading the Cracking the Coding Interview, by Iforgothername is not bad advice?

cooervo 8y ago

Also from Germany. Last time someone told me "we just can't get enought decent devs" was a company with the worst hiring process I have ever seen. They wanted me to build an app, with backend and frontend, and design (the design had to be "beautiful"), test it, all in under a weekend while I still was working fulltime at some other job, and I told them, they knew. It was a Deutsch company. The name is GuteFre.The worst take home test ever, of course I didn't do it.

technics256 8y ago
Lol as an American living in Germany I totally empathize with you, it made me smile. Germany also says it suffers from a lack of developers, but in my opinion what they don't say is that they need more developers to treat poorly and with a low salary.
- jandrese 8y ago
  That's the same in America. You see job posting like: Developer position, independent contractor, 5+ years experience Erlang, COBOL, Salesforce, Active Directory, IBM Mainframe, and Java required. Starting salary: $40,000. And they're whining that there is a great developer shortage in America but they did get some offers from overseas that claim to have those skills, if they could only get a H1B...
  - pluto9 8y ago
    I don't know why you're being downvoted. This is exactly how employers abuse the H1B system. Give an employer absolute power over an immigrant worker with no connections, support network, or other job options and their residency status on the line--what could possibly go wrong?
    - jandrese 8y ago
      To be fair, such an employer usually can't get a H1B these days. Which is probably for the best because those people were probably not completely truthful when they described their tech experience. There is also an filtering effect on job sites where good jobs get snapped up right away and disappear from the site, while delusional prospects concentrate over time, causing people to think that those sites have nothing but garbage offers.

always_good 8y ago

I wonder how much of the shortage is due to there only being a relatively small portion of jobs that developers actually want. Every time I've worked at a small company that had obvious perks (using a cool language, building a cool product), we had a bunch of applicants to pick from. We could be picky. But the few times I worked at a company on soul-sucking work like internal legacy tools in VBScript for a non-tech company, they were the ones complaining about the great dev shortage. They paid well but you also had to jump through hoops to see what it was which is too typical in our work culture. So if the job description doesn't compel someone to apply, GG.

dsr_ 8y ago
I never see a shortage of people applying. I usually see a great shortage of people I want to hire. Mid-level position, asking for 5 years of related experience? 85% of the resumes have no related experience. Fresh out of school, that is. The virtual pile gets much shorter when minimal criteria are applied.
- Clubber 8y ago
  If you pay 'market rates,' expect the best applicants to be average.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Yes! If the best thing an employer can come up with to say about their compensation and benefits is that they are “competitive“ this is a huge red flag for any candidate who is (or believes they are) above average.
    - a_imho 8y ago
      Thing is with red flags people can see them left and right, but the need to put food on the table and pay the bills results in color blindness fast.
- gowld 8y ago

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

> Why not get people at a desk quickly and evaluate them on the job? Because then the other developers would not be able to haze the candidates. Seriously, there's way to much ego involved in development these days.

commandlinefan 8y ago

Especially irritating considering I've dedicated tens of thousands of dollars and six years of my life completing a bachelor's and a master's degree in computer science where people whose entire job was to give me tests and evaluate me on them - maybe you'd like to take their word for it?

azinman2 8y ago
If only that was actually reliable to find out who can code well...
nicolashahn 8y ago
The problem is, there are people with those degrees who still can't even code fizzbuzz.
- learc83 8y ago
  I question that bit of common knowledge. I went to a large state school for undergrad and tutored people regularly. By senior year, even the bottom performing students wouldn't have had a problem with fizzbuzz or similar screening problems. We regularly had coding problems much harder than that on tests. Unless there were other factors involved like maybe the pressure caused by the weirdly adversarial hazing process that the tech interview has become.
  - commandlinefan 8y ago
    Yeah, I'd really like to know what colleges these people are coming out of - if they're real colleges and not just paper diploma mills, I'd have to question their accreditation. I didn't go to MIT - I went to a tier-3 (or 4...) school and you couldn't have graduated, with any GPA no matter how low, without having produced dozens of working programming assignments, many much more difficult than any take-home work assignment.
  - marsrover 8y ago
    I personally went to college with someone who could not program at all when he graduated. He made a lot of friends and had a lot of help the entire way through. It's been 7 years and he has never worked as a developer.

lr4444lr 8y ago

Because you have to tip your hand and reveal to your former employer that you're leaving without any real guarantee from your next employer. Until we can get useful credentialing in place, my vote is still with white-boarding, with a preliminary remote coding interview over online tools.

pascalxus 8y ago

When the whole industry complains about not being able to hire developers, it's not due to lack of engineering supply. It's due to lack of hiring ability. Most engineers, quite simply are terrible at interviewing, at least until someone gives some actual training and mentoring, but even that is quite rare.

draw_down 8y ago

> Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. Yeah. I was pretty interested in a place recently, my initial chat with them seemed great and everything, but I lost interest when they gave me the homework test. It's not that I resented the homework -- hell, I've even worked in a place that had a take-home test which typically resulted in a good signal for a candidate's ability. I just didn't feel like doing more programming shit after doing it all day at work. I think to make this idea work for candidates that aren't actively looking, a company needs to make it clear what they're offering beyond "we're hiring". Employers have been so in control for decades now that they think they should just be able to hang that phrase out there and get what they want. (And nobody cares about foosball and free soda as perks anymore, we all know that shit doesn't cost anything.)

odiroot 8y ago

Very well summed up. Can confirm from the PoV of Berlin, Germany. I've been on an interviewing spree in January and February, totaling around 20 companies. There were maybe 3 or 4 with realistic and respectful hiring process. In the end I was left with just one company I actually liked.

GordonS 8y ago
Out of interest, what do you define as a 'realistic' hiring process? I end up having to hire new devs for my offshore team in India every 4-6 months or so, and I just haven't found a good way to ensure candidates are any good.