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deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cup-of-tea 8y ago
It turns out cutting is one of the hardest things for people to do. Just look at how many obese people there are who cannot reduce their intake despite the immediate inconvenience and discomfort of being fat, not to mention the risk to their health. If so many can't even do it for themselves or their children, there's not much hope of them doing it for others. It also leaves me utterly convinced that nobody really believes in god or an afterlife. People constantly demonstrate that the only thing that matters to them is that today is at least as convenient as yesterday. No change will ever happen from the bottom up. And while our "leaders" continue to be people with already massively inflated lifestyles, nothing will happen from the top down either.
- gepi79 8y ago
  IMO main the problems are poverty and old traditions (e.g. animal products) and general confusion of priorities. The bad media sells the latest news or problem as the most important news or problem. People elect or at least accept the politicians. People pay for or at least accept the bad greedy business practices of small and big companies in the name of holy competition and individual struggle for life. Too many people have faith that god (notably in the USA) and the traditional conservative political parties do what should be done. There is a lack of motivation and desire for life changing real science and technology as national priority to end poverty, to bring wealth to all, to prolong life (anti-aging) and to protect nature including coral reefs. Science and technology would allow people to eat all they want and do no sports and still look like models and be perfectly healthy. Cutting and austerity is not a strategy and not a replacement of urgent progress of science and technology. Cutting and austerity is an unfortunate tactic because of lack of science and technology.
  - cup-of-tea 8y ago
    But you're dreaming of technology that may never happen. There is no way at the moment that we can sustain our current lifestyles without fossil fuels. In addition, if we remain unsustainable then we'll just grow to fill the next level unsustainability if a new technology did come along.
    - gepi79 8y ago
      > But you're dreaming of technology that may never happen. IMO automation, genetic engineering, implants and replacement of natural body parts by artificial body parts will start social, economic and medical revolutions within the next decade. One of the worst misbeliefs is that the end of poverty (at least world hunger) and the end of large-scale wars (e.g. Middle East) is just futurist idiocy while it is actually achievable within a year with existing technology. But political priorities prevent it. Anyway, my point is that effort is required to advance science and technology. To call it a dream and to do nothing to realize it is the wrong way. It only wastes time because the efforts and investments must be made anyway (by future generations). > There is no way at the moment that we can sustain our current lifestyles without fossil fuels. True. But again: There was and is not enough effort to create the technological alternatives. Besides, a lot of energy (and burned forests) could be saved by simply not eating animal products any more. > In addition, if we remain unsustainable then we'll just grow to fill the next level unsustainability if a new technology did come along. Humanity is always at the frontier of sustainability or possibilities for one reason or another. Science and technology lead to creation of resources (e.g. use of steel, use of fossil fuel, use of Uranium, use of solar power) and more efficient use of resources like e.g. man power (e.g. by better program languages, better programs, better computers, better cars, better houses) and less religious societies and less wars and lower birth rates.
      - cup-of-tea 8y ago
        > IMO automation, genetic engineering, implants and replacement of natural body parts by artificial body parts will start social, economic and medical revolutions within the next decade. That's not an opinion, it's a belief. In any case, we're both talking about people cutting their lifestyles which is the correct thing to do. It is an extreme error to simply hope for technology to save us. Most people, especially those that decided to breed, have their heads in the sand and are implicitly hoping technology will make their children's lives OK.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

It turns out cutting is one of the hardest things for people to do. Just look at how many obese people there are who cannot reduce their intake despite the immediate inconvenience and discomfort of being fat, not to mention the risk to their health. If so many can't even do it for themselves or their children, there's not much hope of them doing it for others. It also leaves me utterly convinced that nobody really believes in god or an afterlife. People constantly demonstrate that the only thing that matters to them is that today is at least as convenient as yesterday. No change will ever happen from the bottom up. And while our "leaders" continue to be people with already massively inflated lifestyles, nothing will happen from the top down either.

gepi79 8y ago
IMO main the problems are poverty and old traditions (e.g. animal products) and general confusion of priorities. The bad media sells the latest news or problem as the most important news or problem. People elect or at least accept the politicians. People pay for or at least accept the bad greedy business practices of small and big companies in the name of holy competition and individual struggle for life. Too many people have faith that god (notably in the USA) and the traditional conservative political parties do what should be done. There is a lack of motivation and desire for life changing real science and technology as national priority to end poverty, to bring wealth to all, to prolong life (anti-aging) and to protect nature including coral reefs. Science and technology would allow people to eat all they want and do no sports and still look like models and be perfectly healthy. Cutting and austerity is not a strategy and not a replacement of urgent progress of science and technology. Cutting and austerity is an unfortunate tactic because of lack of science and technology.
- cup-of-tea 8y ago
  But you're dreaming of technology that may never happen. There is no way at the moment that we can sustain our current lifestyles without fossil fuels. In addition, if we remain unsustainable then we'll just grow to fill the next level unsustainability if a new technology did come along.
  - gepi79 8y ago
    > But you're dreaming of technology that may never happen. IMO automation, genetic engineering, implants and replacement of natural body parts by artificial body parts will start social, economic and medical revolutions within the next decade. One of the worst misbeliefs is that the end of poverty (at least world hunger) and the end of large-scale wars (e.g. Middle East) is just futurist idiocy while it is actually achievable within a year with existing technology. But political priorities prevent it. Anyway, my point is that effort is required to advance science and technology. To call it a dream and to do nothing to realize it is the wrong way. It only wastes time because the efforts and investments must be made anyway (by future generations). > There is no way at the moment that we can sustain our current lifestyles without fossil fuels. True. But again: There was and is not enough effort to create the technological alternatives. Besides, a lot of energy (and burned forests) could be saved by simply not eating animal products any more. > In addition, if we remain unsustainable then we'll just grow to fill the next level unsustainability if a new technology did come along. Humanity is always at the frontier of sustainability or possibilities for one reason or another. Science and technology lead to creation of resources (e.g. use of steel, use of fossil fuel, use of Uranium, use of solar power) and more efficient use of resources like e.g. man power (e.g. by better program languages, better programs, better computers, better cars, better houses) and less religious societies and less wars and lower birth rates.
    - cup-of-tea 8y ago
      > IMO automation, genetic engineering, implants and replacement of natural body parts by artificial body parts will start social, economic and medical revolutions within the next decade. That's not an opinion, it's a belief. In any case, we're both talking about people cutting their lifestyles which is the correct thing to do. It is an extreme error to simply hope for technology to save us. Most people, especially those that decided to breed, have their heads in the sand and are implicitly hoping technology will make their children's lives OK.