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That's an interesting point of view from my perspective. Most people I know are trying to pay bills and save for a house deposit. The one's purchasing for soc

That's an interesting point of view from my perspective. Most people I know are trying to pay bills and save for a house deposit. The one's purchasing for social status are regarded as wasting their time generally (and speaking from personal experience).

pdonis 9y ago
> Most people I know are trying to pay bills and save for a house deposit. Is the house what they actually need or what they think they should have based on their social status?
- sjwright 9y ago
  It depends to what extent the house, relative to their means, exceeds their practical needs—which would include a reasonable degree of comfort.
- desu_ 9y ago
  Agreed. If one thinks about it broadly (not just the clichéd look-I-made-it cars) and one might see it more often: having a considered socially desirable spouse/partner, going to certain places on vacation, signalling/posting on SNS. It's really broad, and there is a whole meta. Take a simple thing such as the tech hoodie or t-shirt for instance. Behind the I just like to wear comfortable garments, there is often an attempt to signal that I am making money thanks to my skills, not my look, my company is less boring than yours, etc. I am not saying that there are no true anti-social status people, just that they are likely contrarians and minorities (at least in circles that have escaped the survival mindset).
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Being actively anti-social-status is itself countersignalling - you signal that you're not the kind of person like everyone else out there. I think the only way to escape this is to honestly not care - e.g. choose clothes based purely on utility. I used to feel like that, but as I grew up I realized that social landscape is also part of the environment, so there's utility to be gained by being mindful of what you signal with your clothes or other status symbols. A suit, for example, might not be the most comfortable thing to wear, but can help you navigate the job market and acquire support of other people - in the same way a good pair of mountain shoes can help you navigate rough terrain.
    - stordoff 9y ago
      There's also a sending a "non-signal" aspect to it - as in "I don't care, but I'm choosing wear what everyone else is wearing because I don't want to be asked about it/stand out" (which in some ways is a utility because you don't waste time being asked about thing you don't care about).
- stordoff 9y ago
  How do you untangle need and want though? Strictly speaking, I only _need_ about one room (room to sleep, a bathroom, and room to prepare food), but I wouldn't be particularly happy with that, but obviously a large part of the latter derives from social status and what others around you have.
adrianratnapala 9y ago
Yep. Status-seeking is definitely not the only reason people need money. And people who have it together don't piss it away on mere status symbols. But to the extent that people are caught in a rat race, then I say it is rarely about money itself except as a means to social status. And as in my example of the rational king, even people who do have it together, need to play the status game in some form.

pdonis 9y ago

> Most people I know are trying to pay bills and save for a house deposit. Is the house what they actually need or what they think they should have based on their social status?

sjwright 9y ago
It depends to what extent the house, relative to their means, exceeds their practical needs—which would include a reasonable degree of comfort.
desu_ 9y ago
Agreed. If one thinks about it broadly (not just the clichéd look-I-made-it cars) and one might see it more often: having a considered socially desirable spouse/partner, going to certain places on vacation, signalling/posting on SNS. It's really broad, and there is a whole meta. Take a simple thing such as the tech hoodie or t-shirt for instance. Behind the I just like to wear comfortable garments, there is often an attempt to signal that I am making money thanks to my skills, not my look, my company is less boring than yours, etc. I am not saying that there are no true anti-social status people, just that they are likely contrarians and minorities (at least in circles that have escaped the survival mindset).
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Being actively anti-social-status is itself countersignalling - you signal that you're not the kind of person like everyone else out there. I think the only way to escape this is to honestly not care - e.g. choose clothes based purely on utility. I used to feel like that, but as I grew up I realized that social landscape is also part of the environment, so there's utility to be gained by being mindful of what you signal with your clothes or other status symbols. A suit, for example, might not be the most comfortable thing to wear, but can help you navigate the job market and acquire support of other people - in the same way a good pair of mountain shoes can help you navigate rough terrain.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    There's also a sending a "non-signal" aspect to it - as in "I don't care, but I'm choosing wear what everyone else is wearing because I don't want to be asked about it/stand out" (which in some ways is a utility because you don't waste time being asked about thing you don't care about).
stordoff 9y ago
How do you untangle need and want though? Strictly speaking, I only _need_ about one room (room to sleep, a bathroom, and room to prepare food), but I wouldn't be particularly happy with that, but obviously a large part of the latter derives from social status and what others around you have.

adrianratnapala 9y ago

Yep. Status-seeking is definitely not the only reason people need money. And people who have it together don't piss it away on mere status symbols. But to the extent that people are caught in a rat race, then I say it is rarely about money itself except as a means to social status. And as in my example of the rational king, even people who do have it together, need to play the status game in some form.