12 ms·

> People didn't realize Facebook was selling their secrets. Facebook doesn't sell data, it sells ads.

by 734786710934 8y ago

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Facebook doesn't sell data, it sells ads That sounds like selling data but with extra steps.
- AznHisoka 8y ago
  They basically provide the data for free so you can buy more ads.
- amarkov 8y ago
  When you say Facebook is "selling data", I think most people would understand it to mean that advertisers can go to Facebook and buy a list of people who eat at McDonalds. That's very different from the opaque ad targeting Facebook actually sells.
  - pests 8y ago
    There is a connection between the ad targeting information and the eventual anonymous click through though. You only need to connect that click to a real identity via either self disclosure (newsletter signup, social login, etc) or pushing your metadata through third party data brokers. In the end you have a click associated with an advertising campaign linked to a real life (or even pseudo) identity.
    - Satam 8y ago
      Are you implying that this is a problem that arises specifically from Facebook's targeted advertising? I genuinely don't think that's the case. It doesn't really matter if ads are served to everyone or if they are shown only to a targeted demographic - either way, only people who are interested will click on them. Also, I think it is safe to say that, roughly, it is only the efficiency of clicks per ad-view that will increase if one uses targeted advertising. So, if the act of clicking a targeted advertisement does not in itself somehow "transfer" any more identifying data than a click on a regular ad would, which I don't think it does, then what's the problem?
      - kurthr 8y ago
        Facebook is incentivised to collect and collate product data because it can then sell targeted ads for those humans. As long as the most cost effective path to those targets is through Facebook, and the aggregate target volume is high enough they will make money. Distributing the login data is just advertising.
  - whyever 8y ago
    That argument goes both ways: When you say Facebook is "selling ads", I think most people would understand it to mean that advertisers can buy ads like in a paper magazine. That's very different from the tracking and targeting ads Facebook actually sells.
- underwater 8y ago
  “Hey, I heard you’re opening a baby store. Did you know John and Mary are expecting? Here’s their phone number, you should call them up.” vs. “Hey, I heard you’re opening a baby store. If I know anyone who is expecting I can let them know.”
  - pests 8y ago
    But really your second example ends with "But when they do come inside you'll know I sent them and you can ask them their name yourself." Same knowledge as your first example (names, expecting). I do admit you only get the information from people who come into the store.
    - underwater 8y ago
      They’re vastly different. John and Mary can choose exactly who they want to reveal information to.
      - jnwatson 8y ago
        Not on the modern web.
        EGreg 8y ago
        How so?
        propogandist 8y ago
        Signals. Searching for specific things, emails you're receiving in Gmail, videos you watch online etc. Given Target was able to figure out someone was expecting based on behavior in their store, back in 2011 [1], even though they dont have a loyalty program, imagine what can be done with so many trackers that are on the web datamining your behavior from one website to another. [1] https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habi...
- rmc 8y ago
  It's important to remember, because someone might propose a law against a social network selling data. It could be heralded as finally giving users privacy. And Zuckerberg will be very happy that this PR mess has gone away
tedivm 8y ago
According to this article (as well as the Cambridge Analytica stuff) it doesn't sell data, it just gives it away.
- Twisell 8y ago
  Well it’s more like an exchange, because in the process they gain the ability to suck up virtually every piece of data you post in the external website because you basically hold them your key.

> People didn't realize Facebook was selling their secrets. Facebook doesn't sell data, it sells ads.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Facebook doesn't sell data, it sells ads That sounds like selling data but with extra steps.

AznHisoka 8y ago
They basically provide the data for free so you can buy more ads.
amarkov 8y ago
When you say Facebook is "selling data", I think most people would understand it to mean that advertisers can go to Facebook and buy a list of people who eat at McDonalds. That's very different from the opaque ad targeting Facebook actually sells.
- pests 8y ago
  There is a connection between the ad targeting information and the eventual anonymous click through though. You only need to connect that click to a real identity via either self disclosure (newsletter signup, social login, etc) or pushing your metadata through third party data brokers. In the end you have a click associated with an advertising campaign linked to a real life (or even pseudo) identity.
  - Satam 8y ago
    Are you implying that this is a problem that arises specifically from Facebook's targeted advertising? I genuinely don't think that's the case. It doesn't really matter if ads are served to everyone or if they are shown only to a targeted demographic - either way, only people who are interested will click on them. Also, I think it is safe to say that, roughly, it is only the efficiency of clicks per ad-view that will increase if one uses targeted advertising. So, if the act of clicking a targeted advertisement does not in itself somehow "transfer" any more identifying data than a click on a regular ad would, which I don't think it does, then what's the problem?
    - kurthr 8y ago
      Facebook is incentivised to collect and collate product data because it can then sell targeted ads for those humans. As long as the most cost effective path to those targets is through Facebook, and the aggregate target volume is high enough they will make money. Distributing the login data is just advertising.
- whyever 8y ago
  That argument goes both ways: When you say Facebook is "selling ads", I think most people would understand it to mean that advertisers can buy ads like in a paper magazine. That's very different from the tracking and targeting ads Facebook actually sells.
underwater 8y ago
“Hey, I heard you’re opening a baby store. Did you know John and Mary are expecting? Here’s their phone number, you should call them up.” vs. “Hey, I heard you’re opening a baby store. If I know anyone who is expecting I can let them know.”
- pests 8y ago
  But really your second example ends with "But when they do come inside you'll know I sent them and you can ask them their name yourself." Same knowledge as your first example (names, expecting). I do admit you only get the information from people who come into the store.
  - underwater 8y ago
    They’re vastly different. John and Mary can choose exactly who they want to reveal information to.
    - jnwatson 8y ago
      Not on the modern web.
      - EGreg 8y ago
        How so?
        propogandist 8y ago
        Signals. Searching for specific things, emails you're receiving in Gmail, videos you watch online etc. Given Target was able to figure out someone was expecting based on behavior in their store, back in 2011 [1], even though they dont have a loyalty program, imagine what can be done with so many trackers that are on the web datamining your behavior from one website to another. [1] https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habi...
rmc 8y ago
It's important to remember, because someone might propose a law against a social network selling data. It could be heralded as finally giving users privacy. And Zuckerberg will be very happy that this PR mess has gone away

tedivm 8y ago

According to this article (as well as the Cambridge Analytica stuff) it doesn't sell data, it just gives it away.

Twisell 8y ago
Well it’s more like an exchange, because in the process they gain the ability to suck up virtually every piece of data you post in the external website because you basically hold them your key.