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The 5/15/40/40 vesting schedule is _really_ rough. If given the choice between Amazon and "no-name company," yes, Amazon will do wonders for your resume. But, i

The 5/15/40/40 vesting schedule is _really_ rough. If given the choice between Amazon and "no-name company," yes, Amazon will do wonders for your resume. But, if comparing an Amazon and Google offer, I'd want a big, big signing bonus from Amazon.

jhall1468 8y ago
Amazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that, but all we ever hear about is the vesting schedule. When all is said and done, Amazon pays a little less than Google/Facebook (the caveat here: most Google/Facebook jobs are in California, not Seattle), but with the stock performance we're seeing, they end up making more on average. The question, is when Amazon's stock stops appreciating so quickly, is other comp going to make up for it?
- grivescorbett 8y ago
  Oh interesting. What precisely is a 2 year sign on reward?
  - aluskuiuc 8y ago
    Amazon has a target compensation for you for your first 4 years, with a cash signing bonus making up for the lack of stock in the first two years, so it evens out. Of course the 5/15/40/40 model only applies to your signing; all further yearly stock grants are over the next 2 years from grant time.
    - guy_c 8y ago
      Is it common to get additional grants during that first 4 years?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - intopieces 8y ago
        It's common to get a second vesting in your third year (or else your comp would go down). It's almost common to get a promotion around that time -- managers are responsible for promoting their employees, and it's taken seriously.
        physcab 8y ago
        It also means your destiny is in your manager's hands, which can be unfair if you end up with a bad manager, or several new ones. And unfortunately at Amazon, this is very common (current employee here).
        jhall1468 8y ago
        That's literally every job ever. You aren't going to have a successful career at Google if your manager doesn't want you to. The org golden handcuffs are gone, so if you have a bad manager, change teams. For the record "bad managers" are no more common or less common at Amazon as any other company.
- ajkjk 8y ago
  Stock aside, they still pay healthy tech salaries, well over those of many professions in America. The stock is a bonus over that.
- hueving 8y ago
  Never take upward stock performance into account in a comp offer. If you think Amazon stock is going to go up and you have an offer from another company for more money, just take the offer for more money and buy some Amazon stock. Upward stock potential is never a valid reason to join a publicly traded company.
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    This is a misunderstanding because it doesn't take into account the asymmetry of the situation: you have more to gain by RSUs going up than you have to lose by them going down. Imagine my yearly pay will be 150K at Amazon or 200K somewhere else. Amazon stock could go up, and my pay in my second year could be 250K, in which case I am making more by being at Amazon. Or it could stay the same or go down, in which case my pay in my second year would be <= 200K, but in that case I can just ditch Amazon for another company to bring my comp back to market levels.
    - aluskuiuc 8y ago
      Also, if the stock doesn't perform well, Amazon will grant you more to keep you in the expected band; but it won't take any away if you are making "more than you should".
      - hueving 8y ago
        They will only grant extra if the poor stock performance isn't a result of real problems in the company or economy.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
        They won’t take away terms of your existing grant, but they will nerf future annual grants when they see that you’re “already making plenty” with the shares that are yet to vest.
    - hueving 8y ago
      You can buy call options covering the entire vesting amount of RSUs with less than the 50k that would give you the potential upside that you would have as an employee. Remember, predicting that a stock goes up is just as lucrative for an outsider as it is an insider. Never make a stock prediction part of your evaluation of a job offer because there are plenty of financial instruments to allow you the same upside as an outsider.
- CobrastanJorji 8y ago
  > Amazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that. That is a really bold way to frame "We don't even give you all of your signing bonus up front" as a positive. Kudos for coming up with it.
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    Their sign on bonuses are higher? And who cares, everyone's golden handcuffs are 2 years, so you aren't actually getting it up front anyway. It's pro-rated loan until then.

jhall1468 8y ago

Amazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that, but all we ever hear about is the vesting schedule. When all is said and done, Amazon pays a little less than Google/Facebook (the caveat here: most Google/Facebook jobs are in California, not Seattle), but with the stock performance we're seeing, they end up making more on average. The question, is when Amazon's stock stops appreciating so quickly, is other comp going to make up for it?

grivescorbett 8y ago
Oh interesting. What precisely is a 2 year sign on reward?
- aluskuiuc 8y ago
  Amazon has a target compensation for you for your first 4 years, with a cash signing bonus making up for the lack of stock in the first two years, so it evens out. Of course the 5/15/40/40 model only applies to your signing; all further yearly stock grants are over the next 2 years from grant time.
  - guy_c 8y ago
    Is it common to get additional grants during that first 4 years?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - intopieces 8y ago
      It's common to get a second vesting in your third year (or else your comp would go down). It's almost common to get a promotion around that time -- managers are responsible for promoting their employees, and it's taken seriously.
      - physcab 8y ago
        It also means your destiny is in your manager's hands, which can be unfair if you end up with a bad manager, or several new ones. And unfortunately at Amazon, this is very common (current employee here).
        jhall1468 8y ago
        That's literally every job ever. You aren't going to have a successful career at Google if your manager doesn't want you to. The org golden handcuffs are gone, so if you have a bad manager, change teams. For the record "bad managers" are no more common or less common at Amazon as any other company.
ajkjk 8y ago
Stock aside, they still pay healthy tech salaries, well over those of many professions in America. The stock is a bonus over that.
hueving 8y ago
Never take upward stock performance into account in a comp offer. If you think Amazon stock is going to go up and you have an offer from another company for more money, just take the offer for more money and buy some Amazon stock. Upward stock potential is never a valid reason to join a publicly traded company.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  This is a misunderstanding because it doesn't take into account the asymmetry of the situation: you have more to gain by RSUs going up than you have to lose by them going down. Imagine my yearly pay will be 150K at Amazon or 200K somewhere else. Amazon stock could go up, and my pay in my second year could be 250K, in which case I am making more by being at Amazon. Or it could stay the same or go down, in which case my pay in my second year would be <= 200K, but in that case I can just ditch Amazon for another company to bring my comp back to market levels.
  - aluskuiuc 8y ago
    Also, if the stock doesn't perform well, Amazon will grant you more to keep you in the expected band; but it won't take any away if you are making "more than you should".
    - hueving 8y ago
      They will only grant extra if the poor stock performance isn't a result of real problems in the company or economy.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      They won’t take away terms of your existing grant, but they will nerf future annual grants when they see that you’re “already making plenty” with the shares that are yet to vest.
  - hueving 8y ago
    You can buy call options covering the entire vesting amount of RSUs with less than the 50k that would give you the potential upside that you would have as an employee. Remember, predicting that a stock goes up is just as lucrative for an outsider as it is an insider. Never make a stock prediction part of your evaluation of a job offer because there are plenty of financial instruments to allow you the same upside as an outsider.
CobrastanJorji 8y ago
> Amazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that. That is a really bold way to frame "We don't even give you all of your signing bonus up front" as a positive. Kudos for coming up with it.
- jhall1468 8y ago
  Their sign on bonuses are higher? And who cares, everyone's golden handcuffs are 2 years, so you aren't actually getting it up front anyway. It's pro-rated loan until then.