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"Amazon was also just named the #1 business on LinkedIn’s 2018 Top Companies list, which ranks the most sought after places to work for professionals in the Uni
by Bekwnn 9y ago
"Amazon was also just named the #1 business on LinkedIn’s 2018 Top Companies list, which ranks the most sought after places to work for professionals in the United States."
This statement/award strikes me as very far removed from reality.
- swarnie_ 9y agoI would bend over backwards to put a few years worth of Amazon on my CV. I assumed that was common especially in this crowd?
- grivescorbett 9y agoThe 5/15/40/40 vesting schedule is _really_ rough. If given the choice between Amazon and "no-name company," yes, Amazon will do wonders for your resume. But, if comparing an Amazon and Google offer, I'd want a big, big signing bonus from Amazon.
- jhall1468 9y agoAmazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that, but all we ever hear about is the vesting schedule. When all is said and done, Amazon pays a little less than Google/Facebook (the caveat here: most Google/Facebook jobs are in California, not Seattle), but with the stock performance we're seeing, they end up making more on average. The question, is when Amazon's stock stops appreciating so quickly, is other comp going to make up for it?
- grivescorbett 9y agoOh interesting. What precisely is a 2 year sign on reward?
- aluskuiuc 9y agoAmazon has a target compensation for you for your first 4 years, with a cash signing bonus making up for the lack of stock in the first two years, so it evens out. Of course the 5/15/40/40 model only applies to your signing; all further yearly stock grants are over the next 2 years from grant time.
- guy_c 9y agoIs it common to get additional grants during that first 4 years?
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- intopieces 9y agoIt's common to get a second vesting in your third year (or else your comp would go down). It's almost common to get a promotion around that time -- managers are responsible for promoting their employees, and it's taken seriously.
- physcab 9y agoIt also means your destiny is in your manager's hands, which can be unfair if you end up with a bad manager, or several new ones. And unfortunately at Amazon, this is very common (current employee here).
- jhall1468 9y agoThat's literally every job ever. You aren't going to have a successful career at Google if your manager doesn't want you to. The org golden handcuffs are gone, so if you have a bad manager, change teams. For the record "bad managers" are no more common or less common at Amazon as any other company.
- ajkjk 9y agoStock aside, they still pay healthy tech salaries, well over those of many professions in America. The stock is a bonus over that.
- hueving 9y agoNever take upward stock performance into account in a comp offer. If you think Amazon stock is going to go up and you have an offer from another company for more money, just take the offer for more money and buy some Amazon stock. Upward stock potential is never a valid reason to join a publicly traded company.
- umanwizard 9y agoThis is a misunderstanding because it doesn't take into account the asymmetry of the situation: you have more to gain by RSUs going up than you have to lose by them going down. Imagine my yearly pay will be 150K at Amazon or 200K somewhere else. Amazon stock could go up, and my pay in my second year could be 250K, in which case I am making more by being at Amazon. Or it could stay the same or go down, in which case my pay in my second year would be <= 200K, but in that case I can just ditch Amazon for another company to bring my comp back to market levels.
- aluskuiuc 9y agoAlso, if the stock doesn't perform well, Amazon will grant you more to keep you in the expected band; but it won't take any away if you are making "more than you should".
- hueving 9y agoThey will only grant extra if the poor stock performance isn't a result of real problems in the company or economy.
- sokoloff 9y agoThey won’t take away terms of your existing grant, but they will nerf future annual grants when they see that you’re “already making plenty” with the shares that are yet to vest.
- hueving 9y agoYou can buy call options covering the entire vesting amount of RSUs with less than the 50k that would give you the potential upside that you would have as an employee. Remember, predicting that a stock goes up is just as lucrative for an outsider as it is an insider. Never make a stock prediction part of your evaluation of a job offer because there are plenty of financial instruments to allow you the same upside as an outsider.
- CobrastanJorji 9y ago> Amazon does a 2 year sign on reward, the first year in bulk the second year in monthly increments. No other company does that. That is a really bold way to frame "We don't even give you all of your signing bonus up front" as a positive. Kudos for coming up with it.
- jhall1468 9y agoTheir sign on bonuses are higher? And who cares, everyone's golden handcuffs are 2 years, so you aren't actually getting it up front anyway. It's pro-rated loan until then.
- knieveltech 9y agoMaybe inside the SV bubble Amazon is viewed as a career stepping stone or prestigious or whatever? I can't relate but I'm in this weird career niche where open source commits trump or entirely replace resume/cv so I don't claim to be thoroughly knowledgeable about what motivates others. Personally I'd rather deliver pizza than work for a company that exists on the back of a pool of exploited low-wage workers. YMMV.
- EpicEng 9y ago>Personally I'd rather deliver pizza than work for a company that exists on the back of a pool of exploited low-wage workers. YMMV. Easy to say when you're making six figures. I doubt most pizza delivery drivers would agree with you.
- knieveltech 9y agoI drove delivery for five years so I know at least one pizza delivery driver who agrees with me.
- EpicEng 9y agoSo did I. I was also a waiter. So I know at least one who disagrees. I guess it's a tie.
- julianozen 9y ago......dont pizza companies exist on the back of a pool of exploited low-wage workers
- krapp 9y agoYeah, but they do get free pizza. Amazon, meanwhile, won't let anybody get free snacks from the bins except for mice.
- knieveltech 9y agoI mean, if you want to play that game, capitalism itself exists on the back of a pool of exploited low-wage workers.
- sushisource 9y agoI don't think so at all. Sure, Amazon has a certain reputation, especially in hacker-news circles. That said I think you're forgetting about the silent but huge majority of average joes who would kill for an Amazon job.
- hueving 9y agoYou need to qualify that. Most people would not kill to work in a warehouse or customer support, which is a huge portion of Amazon jobs.
- CobrastanJorji 9y agoThis absolutely. While we tech scene folks love to consider ourselves "average joes," Amazon employs around 100,000 warehouse employees, and for them Amazon is decidedly NOT the #1 place people want to work. It's a fine place to be a software engineer, so long as you enjoy the high stress/low perks part of the tech scene, but that's a very different, air conditioned environment.
- scarface74 9y agoI know someone who works as a low level manager at Amazon and I've seen salaries of the average Software developer - for both the salary is like $140-$160K. That's nothing to live in Seattle with the cost of living. You can make that in 1 of 20 other metro areas that I know of with a much lower cost of living and much lower stress. Even when considering the signing bonus and stock, I was never enticed to actually fly out there and interview even after I got through some preliminary phone screens.
- cm2012 9y agoYou know median seattle family income is like 80k right? Less if you consider more of the metro area. That's the family income, so it includes two earner households. NYC is like 50k.
- jasode 9y agoIf you constrain "reality" to the LinkedIn list[1] that Jeff referenced, Amazon is #1. If you drill into the urls and read the LinkedIn ranking methodology[2], you'll see it's based on views of the companys' job listings and career page. If it was a ranking based on The New York Times stories and reader comments, Amazon would definitely not be #1. Yes, when Jeff translates LinkedIn's limited criteria into "the most sought after places to work for professionals in the United States.", he's editorializing. That's not too surprising since it's a letter to his fellow owners. Cheerleading is to be expected. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linkedin-top-companies-2018-where-us-wants-work-now-daniel-roth https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linkedin-top-companies-2018-w... [2] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-we-created-2018-linkedin-top-companies-list-daniel-roth/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-we-created-2018-linkedin-...
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