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>That being said, with all the problems the F-35 has, much like the Eurofighter before it, it might be no match for what another advanced economy could produce.

>That being said, with all the problems the F-35 has, much like the Eurofighter before it, it might be no match for what another advanced economy could produce. Given that the F-35 was built with the latest tech that no other advanced economy even has I have no idea how anything could be built in the next 10-15 years that will significantly outclass it.

ptero 9y ago
> F-35 was built with the latest tech that no other advanced economy even has This might be true about F-22 (or not), but F-35 does not have much of latest tech as countries are suspicious of sharing cutting edge military tech on a multinational project.
GVIrish 9y ago
The problem for the F-35 is that all that advanced tech is not working properly and may never work as well as originally imagined. Meanwhile, adversaries already have aircraft that are faster, have longer range, and are more maneuverable, not to mention air defense networks. As long as the F-35's principal advantage of being somewhat stealthy holds up it will be fine against opposing air forces and AAD's. But if that advantage is sufficiently whittled away it could find itself outgunned and outclassed.
ndelage 9y ago
Doesn't the article discuss how it's already been outclasses in real world tests by existing jets like the F-16? Capabilities on paper are useless if they don't deliver in real world usage.
- lajhsdfkl 9y ago
  It lost to the F-16 in a dogfight. Dogfights are not relevant in modern warfare and were not the consideration in the F-35s design (as is readily obvious). When you have missiles traveling at speeds exceeding Mach 2 whether you can win in a dogfight is irrelevant, what is relevant is who sees who first.
Theodores 9y ago
The Russian development model has been better, with orders to India paying the bills. They started around twenty years ago on the kit they flaunted in Syria. I see no reason why this development model cannot win. We have pork barrel.
rxhernandez 9y ago
> What is the Spanish Armada? Maybe outclassing is only necessary when people fight under the most ideal and conventional of conditions.
- lajhsdfkl 9y ago
  False equivalence. The Spanish Armada was massive in scale but there was not an exponential difference in capability against the British Armada as there is with US aviation technology and the rest of the world.
nordsieck 9y ago
In a "real" war, it's not a question of which airplane would win in a duel, but which airplaine + crew is more cost effective at destroying the other. Could F-35s take on 10x their number of F-16s? The answer is not obviously yes to me, particularly in light of the Yugoslavian kill against an F-117a.
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  Only from long range where the F-35 was able to remain undetected and able to bug out after firing. It wouldn't stand a chance against a single F-16 in a dogfight.
  - greedo 9y ago
    Not necessarily true. The F-16 can't lock on with AMRAAM, so it would have to rely on 9X Sidewinders, which might not be able to lock on via IR depending on the initial engagement. The F-35 does have some IR masking (not as much as the F-22), and it will have the 9X Sidewinders as well. And F-35 test pilots have continually said that the ACM performance is underrated. Sure a "clean" F-16 might be able to outmaneuver an F-35, but F-16's don't fly clean. All their shit hangs off their pylons, and cause drag etc. So it's not clear who would win. If you factor in all the sensors the F-35 has, and the fact that it will almost always get first shot on the Falcon, it's no contest. In Red Flag etc, the F-35 has dominated the F-16.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      I've been trying to find out exactly what the F-35 did during Red Flag 2017 and it's all very nebulous. I also wasn't able to find any proof that the F-35 dominated the F-16 or whether it even engaged F-16's in dogfights. When the F-16 dominated the F-35 in dogfights the excuse was that the pilots were flying the F-35 like a traditional fighter and that the software wasn't allowing them to have complete control of the plane. If these factors were indeed the issue then it would be nice to see a rematch to validate these conclusions. However, I doubt we'll ever see a rematch in public between these 2 planes ever again.
richmarr 9y ago
> ... I have no idea how anything could be built in the next 10-15 years that will significantly outclass it. Outclass it at what though? Dogfighting? Bombing? Ground support? The problem is that it will be outclassed in any single role by a much cheaper aircraft dedicated to that role.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Being expensive.

ptero 9y ago

> F-35 was built with the latest tech that no other advanced economy even has This might be true about F-22 (or not), but F-35 does not have much of latest tech as countries are suspicious of sharing cutting edge military tech on a multinational project.

GVIrish 9y ago

The problem for the F-35 is that all that advanced tech is not working properly and may never work as well as originally imagined. Meanwhile, adversaries already have aircraft that are faster, have longer range, and are more maneuverable, not to mention air defense networks. As long as the F-35's principal advantage of being somewhat stealthy holds up it will be fine against opposing air forces and AAD's. But if that advantage is sufficiently whittled away it could find itself outgunned and outclassed.

ndelage 9y ago

Doesn't the article discuss how it's already been outclasses in real world tests by existing jets like the F-16? Capabilities on paper are useless if they don't deliver in real world usage.

lajhsdfkl 9y ago
It lost to the F-16 in a dogfight. Dogfights are not relevant in modern warfare and were not the consideration in the F-35s design (as is readily obvious). When you have missiles traveling at speeds exceeding Mach 2 whether you can win in a dogfight is irrelevant, what is relevant is who sees who first.

Theodores 9y ago

The Russian development model has been better, with orders to India paying the bills. They started around twenty years ago on the kit they flaunted in Syria. I see no reason why this development model cannot win. We have pork barrel.

rxhernandez 9y ago

> What is the Spanish Armada? Maybe outclassing is only necessary when people fight under the most ideal and conventional of conditions.

lajhsdfkl 9y ago
False equivalence. The Spanish Armada was massive in scale but there was not an exponential difference in capability against the British Armada as there is with US aviation technology and the rest of the world.

nordsieck 9y ago

In a "real" war, it's not a question of which airplane would win in a duel, but which airplaine + crew is more cost effective at destroying the other. Could F-35s take on 10x their number of F-16s? The answer is not obviously yes to me, particularly in light of the Yugoslavian kill against an F-117a.

bitmapbrother 9y ago
Only from long range where the F-35 was able to remain undetected and able to bug out after firing. It wouldn't stand a chance against a single F-16 in a dogfight.
- greedo 9y ago
  Not necessarily true. The F-16 can't lock on with AMRAAM, so it would have to rely on 9X Sidewinders, which might not be able to lock on via IR depending on the initial engagement. The F-35 does have some IR masking (not as much as the F-22), and it will have the 9X Sidewinders as well. And F-35 test pilots have continually said that the ACM performance is underrated. Sure a "clean" F-16 might be able to outmaneuver an F-35, but F-16's don't fly clean. All their shit hangs off their pylons, and cause drag etc. So it's not clear who would win. If you factor in all the sensors the F-35 has, and the fact that it will almost always get first shot on the Falcon, it's no contest. In Red Flag etc, the F-35 has dominated the F-16.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    I've been trying to find out exactly what the F-35 did during Red Flag 2017 and it's all very nebulous. I also wasn't able to find any proof that the F-35 dominated the F-16 or whether it even engaged F-16's in dogfights. When the F-16 dominated the F-35 in dogfights the excuse was that the pilots were flying the F-35 like a traditional fighter and that the software wasn't allowing them to have complete control of the plane. If these factors were indeed the issue then it would be nice to see a rematch to validate these conclusions. However, I doubt we'll ever see a rematch in public between these 2 planes ever again.

richmarr 9y ago

> ... I have no idea how anything could be built in the next 10-15 years that will significantly outclass it. Outclass it at what though? Dogfighting? Bombing? Ground support? The problem is that it will be outclassed in any single role by a much cheaper aircraft dedicated to that role.

Clubber 9y ago
Being expensive.