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> Typed OM landed in Chrome 66 and is being implemented in Firefox. Edge has shown signs of support, but has yet to add it to their platform dashboard. Sigh. W

by jbob2000 9y ago

> Typed OM landed in Chrome 66 and is being implemented in Firefox. Edge has shown signs of support, but has yet to add it to their platform dashboard. Sigh. What happened to standards? This entire update is a bucket of changes that nobody can use because IE, Firefox, Safari, and mobile are not even close to implementing them.

gcb0 9y ago
ie6-style attack on standards was google plan with chrome from day one. their internal moto was something like "reshaping the future" or sone other facist theme I dont recall now
richbradshaw 9y ago
It is a standard, what do you want browsers to do, all hold off until they have all implemented?
- CorpusCalcium 9y ago
  Not quite, but new and unproven features are supposed to be hidden behind a runtime flag to prevent a hot mess like what was caused with CSS/JS vendor prefixes. The Blink team are getting better at this, but they still really need to put their feet on the brakes a little more, and wait until there are at least two implementations ready before flipping their own switch to enable the feature for all of their users. With two reasonably complete (and independent) implementations it's far more likely that the standard is engine-neutral, and not lacking in crucial detail. The web platform tests will also have been put to the tests to ensure that they have decent coverage. On top of that, the feature can be considered to have been vetted to ensure that it isn't really just being shoved on the web to meet Google's business needs, but rather in the interests of a broader set of people. These things can easily slip if pushed too quickly, even if others are generally supportive of the general idea of the feature.
kbenson 9y ago
A google search for "firefox attributeStyleMap" yielded little info about the state of this, but one of the results was a specific commit at a mercurial repository at Mozilla[1], and it seems to be a patch to add this. So perhaps it's much closer than you think? Edit: Actually, I wasn't paying too much attention to the commit initially. Apparently it's not implementing attributeStyleMap, it's using it as if it exists, so I suppose it's already implemented in this branch, or this is a test in anticipation of it. 1: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/changeset/f4e33c42faa7 https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/changeset/f4e33c42faa...
- tialaramex 9y ago
  No, you've linked a merge commit, which is merging a bunch of stuff. One of the things it merges is BZ # 1442425 which is landing a newer version of the W3C's set of web platform tests, seen here testing the Typed OM feature you are interested in: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/css/css-typed-om https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/css/cs... So, this actually tells you nothing about whether Firefox is interested in implementing this or plans to do so.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Hmm, so what is the status of this W3C draft[1] (which they say specifically does not imply endorsement), if the W3C is putting a test for it in one of their test suites? Or do Chrome/Chrome devs get commit bits? Or maybe one of the purposes of this is to serve as a way for browsers to coordinate on implementations even before it's become a standard? (It's obviously a way to coordinate on things that are a standard). 1: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-typed-om-1/ https://www.w3.org/TR/css-typed-om-1/

gcb0 9y ago

ie6-style attack on standards was google plan with chrome from day one. their internal moto was something like "reshaping the future" or sone other facist theme I dont recall now

richbradshaw 9y ago

It is a standard, what do you want browsers to do, all hold off until they have all implemented?

CorpusCalcium 9y ago
Not quite, but new and unproven features are supposed to be hidden behind a runtime flag to prevent a hot mess like what was caused with CSS/JS vendor prefixes. The Blink team are getting better at this, but they still really need to put their feet on the brakes a little more, and wait until there are at least two implementations ready before flipping their own switch to enable the feature for all of their users. With two reasonably complete (and independent) implementations it's far more likely that the standard is engine-neutral, and not lacking in crucial detail. The web platform tests will also have been put to the tests to ensure that they have decent coverage. On top of that, the feature can be considered to have been vetted to ensure that it isn't really just being shoved on the web to meet Google's business needs, but rather in the interests of a broader set of people. These things can easily slip if pushed too quickly, even if others are generally supportive of the general idea of the feature.

kbenson 9y ago

A google search for "firefox attributeStyleMap" yielded little info about the state of this, but one of the results was a specific commit at a mercurial repository at Mozilla[1], and it seems to be a patch to add this. So perhaps it's much closer than you think? Edit: Actually, I wasn't paying too much attention to the commit initially. Apparently it's not implementing attributeStyleMap, it's using it as if it exists, so I suppose it's already implemented in this branch, or this is a test in anticipation of it. 1: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/changeset/f4e33c42faa7 https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/changeset/f4e33c42faa...

tialaramex 9y ago
No, you've linked a merge commit, which is merging a bunch of stuff. One of the things it merges is BZ # 1442425 which is landing a newer version of the W3C's set of web platform tests, seen here testing the Typed OM feature you are interested in: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/css/css-typed-om https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/css/cs... So, this actually tells you nothing about whether Firefox is interested in implementing this or plans to do so.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Hmm, so what is the status of this W3C draft[1] (which they say specifically does not imply endorsement), if the W3C is putting a test for it in one of their test suites? Or do Chrome/Chrome devs get commit bits? Or maybe one of the purposes of this is to serve as a way for browsers to coordinate on implementations even before it's become a standard? (It's obviously a way to coordinate on things that are a standard). 1: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-typed-om-1/ https://www.w3.org/TR/css-typed-om-1/