4 ms·

Personally, even with the recent news, I'm still having mixed feeling about the whole ordeal. On one side I'm not against using/collecting data for the purpose

by Arqu 8y ago

Personally, even with the recent news, I'm still having mixed feeling about the whole ordeal. On one side I'm not against using/collecting data for the purpose of better content (=better engagement) or more targeted ads (still better than looking at ads that have nothing to do with me). Though I am for it to be anonymized (ie separating the personal data from the generic things like names from items bought) however that is pretty much useless from the moment you enter your name anywhere as they can basically fingerprint the data and match it up to you anyways. On the flipside of this, I don't like the direction this all is going - sure I like tailored content, but at what point do we reach a threshold where people are just shoved content down their throat since they cant find stuff outside these mechanisms to broaden their view and interests. More related to this topic, as long as the data is there, someone will analyze it, and socioeconomic targeting has been done for a while already (you don't market 8K curved suround sound TVs to 90 year olds) this is just a step up. However I'm a bit scared of when we reach the tipping point on content in terms of targeting: what we might want to see vs what it might want us to see.

pacala 8y ago
Ads are a [D]DOS on your brain computing power. Targeted or not.
- Arqu 8y ago
  That's true, and I generally dislike them, thus I run an ad blocker and some limits on JS. However I have a bit of a broader view on the topic. For one instance, we wouldn't have many of the things we have without the economic backbone of the internet - ads. Google Maps - No, E Mail services - No and many more as they are just to drive user engagement to serve more ads or to lock you into the rest of their ecosystems hence Android and iOS and their integrations with the services. However I don't mind at all some higher quality marketing like technical blogs with some real value + a plug for their service on how it solves the problem, and similar sponsored content. There is almost always to sides to both stories.
  - pacala 8y ago
    Email predates Google. https://www.openstreetmap.org/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/ does fine without ads. The ad-based business model makes it harder to develop competing essential information tools that are also economically viable.
    - Arqu 8y ago
      Email predates google, however I don't thing the services would be anything alike without the bigger players. Initialy email was just a communication tool, however it quickly evolved to be sold as a feature on various hosting provides or was "thrown in" a more general package just to be feature par in attempt to bring in more people to use the service. This is not really directly related to online ads, however just shows that it's comercialized one way or another. Open street map is a great example, along with wikipedia and numerous open source projects which are either backed by some foundations or collect donations and membership fees. The broader scope here is that while this is a better approach for the world, as long as there is the possibility to earn a buck on some service, there will be a comercial version of it. Guess capitalism just works that way.
qwertox 8y ago
I'd rather have untargeted ads. When I read a printed tech magazine, I get the ad targeting that may be interesting for me, just because of the content I'm reading. There is no other information flowing back to online advertisers, or, to be more realistic, person tracking companies, which is what they really are. The content should be enough to determine the ad category, which would suite your desire for more engaging ads. There's no reason why online publications can't do that as well. If I read a blog post about food, show me an ad about the coolest frying pan on earth and also one about the one with the best price to performance to ratio. Show me ads for a Porsche even if I can't afford it, I may in a couple of years, and in the meantime the ads may have told my subconsciousness that this Porsche should be my goal.
- Arqu 8y ago
  That is also a good view on it. I would like it the most if online marketing was flipped - no networks but the media agencies have to serve related content and make ad deals based on those, hence much less cross marketing crap. However I see also why businesses don't do it as the conversions would probably be much lower with that approach. Also I think the auto industry, since you mentioned it, is closer to this approach as they condition users from a young age to pick a brand they like.
- efdee 8y ago
  This is possible for focused websites (like the website about food you mention), but not really for something generic like Facebook. Unless they start guessing what you are interested in based on your behavior, which is kind of what they do now.
  - sdoering 8y ago
    Then maybe the business model for these genericas should be toast. No entity has to have the ability to be able to know me in such a fine grained way as to be able to even target me out of context and influence me for consumerist (or even political) reasons. If I am in the mood of car prOn - show me porsche or stuff. If I ready about python - show me current books on the topic. Or Udemy courses. Or what not. If I currently read about how to get rid of pimples - show me beauty products. But don't try to influence me into buying the latest camera gear, when I am interaction with my animal protection buddies over facebook.

by Arqu 8y ago

pacala 8y ago

Ads are a [D]DOS on your brain computing power. Targeted or not.

Arqu 8y ago
That's true, and I generally dislike them, thus I run an ad blocker and some limits on JS. However I have a bit of a broader view on the topic. For one instance, we wouldn't have many of the things we have without the economic backbone of the internet - ads. Google Maps - No, E Mail services - No and many more as they are just to drive user engagement to serve more ads or to lock you into the rest of their ecosystems hence Android and iOS and their integrations with the services. However I don't mind at all some higher quality marketing like technical blogs with some real value + a plug for their service on how it solves the problem, and similar sponsored content. There is almost always to sides to both stories.
- pacala 8y ago
  Email predates Google. https://www.openstreetmap.org/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/ does fine without ads. The ad-based business model makes it harder to develop competing essential information tools that are also economically viable.
  - Arqu 8y ago
    Email predates google, however I don't thing the services would be anything alike without the bigger players. Initialy email was just a communication tool, however it quickly evolved to be sold as a feature on various hosting provides or was "thrown in" a more general package just to be feature par in attempt to bring in more people to use the service. This is not really directly related to online ads, however just shows that it's comercialized one way or another. Open street map is a great example, along with wikipedia and numerous open source projects which are either backed by some foundations or collect donations and membership fees. The broader scope here is that while this is a better approach for the world, as long as there is the possibility to earn a buck on some service, there will be a comercial version of it. Guess capitalism just works that way.

qwertox 8y ago

I'd rather have untargeted ads. When I read a printed tech magazine, I get the ad targeting that may be interesting for me, just because of the content I'm reading. There is no other information flowing back to online advertisers, or, to be more realistic, person tracking companies, which is what they really are. The content should be enough to determine the ad category, which would suite your desire for more engaging ads. There's no reason why online publications can't do that as well. If I read a blog post about food, show me an ad about the coolest frying pan on earth and also one about the one with the best price to performance to ratio. Show me ads for a Porsche even if I can't afford it, I may in a couple of years, and in the meantime the ads may have told my subconsciousness that this Porsche should be my goal.

Arqu 8y ago
That is also a good view on it. I would like it the most if online marketing was flipped - no networks but the media agencies have to serve related content and make ad deals based on those, hence much less cross marketing crap. However I see also why businesses don't do it as the conversions would probably be much lower with that approach. Also I think the auto industry, since you mentioned it, is closer to this approach as they condition users from a young age to pick a brand they like.
efdee 8y ago
This is possible for focused websites (like the website about food you mention), but not really for something generic like Facebook. Unless they start guessing what you are interested in based on your behavior, which is kind of what they do now.
- sdoering 8y ago
  Then maybe the business model for these genericas should be toast. No entity has to have the ability to be able to know me in such a fine grained way as to be able to even target me out of context and influence me for consumerist (or even political) reasons. If I am in the mood of car prOn - show me porsche or stuff. If I ready about python - show me current books on the topic. Or Udemy courses. Or what not. If I currently read about how to get rid of pimples - show me beauty products. But don't try to influence me into buying the latest camera gear, when I am interaction with my animal protection buddies over facebook.