4 ms·

>I'm not even sure what C is used for these days beyond kernel/driver development or embedded systems. I think I've met precisely one C developer in the last 10

by carlmr 9y ago

>I'm not even sure what C is used for these days beyond kernel/driver development or embedded systems. I think I've met precisely one C developer in the last 10 years. I meet hundreds every day, and nary any web developers. I'm working in an embedded shop though, so YMMV on personal experience here. I learned some JS in school but haven't needed it since. Except writing some extensions, which was easy enough to learn in an afternoon if you know C-like languages. (I used TypeScript to be fair, much easier for me, why anyone would use pure JS is beyond me). I'm not sure TIOBE is useful for anything either. But a lot of legacy programs in C need maintenance. A lot of government software, flight control systems, banking systems etc. are probably still in large parts C. Just look at the salaries of COBOL developers (where is that on TIOBE again?), and you'll see that maintenance is big business. And that language is as ANCIENT as ALLCAPS. Looking as C is still at the heart of almost everything, I think maintenance work will still be a big consideration for the next 50 years. It might not be sexy or what you want to do though.

quanticle 9y ago
I'm not sure I agree with your point about COBOL developers, though I do agree with your larger point about C. The reason that COBOL developers get big bucks today is because so few of them remain. During the late-80s and the '90s, there were massive layoffs that decimated the COBOL job market. The developers earning big bucks today doing COBOL doing today are the ones that survived those layoffs, not your "typical" COBOL developer. I would wager that the median COBOL developer either transitioned into management, out of the industry or is working in a completely different language today.
- carlmr 9y ago
  Yes, my main point here was maintenance is important and the number of people who know old languages usually shrinks, making it a very good job market as you point out.
- le-mark 9y ago
  The reason that COBOL developers get big bucks today is because so few of them remain. During the late-80s and the '90s, there were massive layoffs that decimated the COBOL job market. This if false, I work at a company that still employees several hundred cobol developers onshore, and many hundreds more offshore. This is down from > 1,000 several years aog. Cobol pay is mediocre, here it's around $75k at the 10 year mark. Plus they're subject to being RIF'ed and any time (reduction in force, layed off). The idea that there's a shortage is false too. In the local market there are several hundred if not thousands of cobol developers who have been laid off over the past couple of decades. Most probably left the field entirely. I see no reason to believe this local experience is not typical of the US in general.
  - slfnflctd 9y ago
    I think you might be underestimating the unwillingness of older people to relocate or travel long distances for a 'job opportunity'. These are also people who probably tend not to live in bigger cities as much. They've seen countless jobs come & go, but they choose to live where they are for long-standing reasons which are often harder to let go of the older they get. They've moved away from the hustle and bustle and are happy with their choice. I have personally met older people with higher end skills (that would command a six figure salary in certain cities) choosing to work as janitors at a local institution instead of chasing that dollar, because they love their town and lifestyle and the cost of living is low. Edit: Forgot to add, I also know a guy over 70 who flies all over the place doing COBOL work and is making bank doing it.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    > if false After the Freudian slip I think this is the first time I come across a Boolean slip.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  What are “big bucks” these days in the context of FAANG? I think you have to get to 450k+, or is that still too low?
sho 9y ago
OK thanks for that. I guess you confirm that I do, indeed, live in a bubble!
- carlmr 9y ago
  And I live in mine :)

by carlmr 9y ago

quanticle 9y ago

I'm not sure I agree with your point about COBOL developers, though I do agree with your larger point about C. The reason that COBOL developers get big bucks today is because so few of them remain. During the late-80s and the '90s, there were massive layoffs that decimated the COBOL job market. The developers earning big bucks today doing COBOL doing today are the ones that survived those layoffs, not your "typical" COBOL developer. I would wager that the median COBOL developer either transitioned into management, out of the industry or is working in a completely different language today.

carlmr 9y ago
Yes, my main point here was maintenance is important and the number of people who know old languages usually shrinks, making it a very good job market as you point out.
le-mark 9y ago
The reason that COBOL developers get big bucks today is because so few of them remain. During the late-80s and the '90s, there were massive layoffs that decimated the COBOL job market. This if false, I work at a company that still employees several hundred cobol developers onshore, and many hundreds more offshore. This is down from > 1,000 several years aog. Cobol pay is mediocre, here it's around $75k at the 10 year mark. Plus they're subject to being RIF'ed and any time (reduction in force, layed off). The idea that there's a shortage is false too. In the local market there are several hundred if not thousands of cobol developers who have been laid off over the past couple of decades. Most probably left the field entirely. I see no reason to believe this local experience is not typical of the US in general.
- slfnflctd 9y ago
  I think you might be underestimating the unwillingness of older people to relocate or travel long distances for a 'job opportunity'. These are also people who probably tend not to live in bigger cities as much. They've seen countless jobs come & go, but they choose to live where they are for long-standing reasons which are often harder to let go of the older they get. They've moved away from the hustle and bustle and are happy with their choice. I have personally met older people with higher end skills (that would command a six figure salary in certain cities) choosing to work as janitors at a local institution instead of chasing that dollar, because they love their town and lifestyle and the cost of living is low. Edit: Forgot to add, I also know a guy over 70 who flies all over the place doing COBOL work and is making bank doing it.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jacquesm 9y ago
  > if false After the Freudian slip I think this is the first time I come across a Boolean slip.
beamatronic 9y ago
What are “big bucks” these days in the context of FAANG? I think you have to get to 450k+, or is that still too low?

sho 9y ago

OK thanks for that. I guess you confirm that I do, indeed, live in a bubble!

carlmr 9y ago
And I live in mine :)