7 ms·
If you lean left, front wheel will "do" countersteering itself (same as noted). Since gyroscopic effect on bike is not so big and speed, mass is not bigger than
by ozim 9y ago
If you lean left, front wheel will "do" countersteering itself (same as noted). Since gyroscopic effect on bike is not so big and speed, mass is not bigger than rider it is not noticable. For motorbike you cannot just lean hence need for explicit countersteering because of much higher forces involved.
So I think it is correct to say that countersteering is always required.
- baud147258 9y ago> countersteering is always required Only on a motorbike.
- marodox 9y ago> If you lean left, front wheel will "do" countersteering itself The same applies to a bicycle.
- ioseph 9y ago> Only on a motorbike. Only above a certain speed, at low speeds countersteering will not work Similarly above a certain speed on a bicycle countersteering is the only way you can turn
- schoen 9y agoSome people seem to describe this difference as unconscious countersteering versus deliberate countersteering, that is, that the difference isn't really whether you're countersteering or not, but whether the countersteer is large enough that you have to do it "on purpose".
- jstanley 9y agoThe steering geometry is exactly the same. The only time you steer left to go left is if you're going so slowly that the only reason the bike doesn't fall over is because of your near-superhuman balance. That is to say, when you're practically at a standstill. Anywhere approaching walking pace or above, if you try to turn left by steering left, you'll fall off the right hand side before you make any appreciable turn.
- baud147258 9y ago> if you try to turn left by steering left Well, if you're leaning left when steering left, I don't see how you'll fall to the right
- scatters 9y agoThat's the issue; how do you lean left to start with? If the human-bicycle system has its center of gravity over the wheel line, shifting your weight relative to the bike doesn't move the center of gravity - you lean one way, the bike leans the other, and you end up in the same overall position. The only way to initiate a lean to the left is to countersteer to the right.
- baud147258 9y agoThat's weird since I don't think I'm countersteering when turning. Or perhaps I'm doing it unconsciously?
- function_seven 9y ago> Or perhaps I'm doing it unconsciously? You are. I proved this to myself once by applying pressure to the handlebars using only the palm of my hands on the backside of each handle. Even at very slow speeds, I could not for the life of me turn left by applying pressure only to the right bar (to turn the front wheel to the left). No amount of leaning helped. To lean the bike, I needed to create some external force to push it over. Leaning my own body to the left just made the bike lean to the right.
- baud147258 9y agoI'll have to check, because I don't believe it. I wonder who's right: me or a bunch of randos on an internet thread.
- schoen 9y ago
- Retric 9y agoIt's timing dependent. Turning right and momentum 'pushes' your body to the left, but with the correct timing you end up countering that force while keeping the bike absolutely vertical. PS: Picture how a car turns, the wheels are vertical and you can you can turn without counter steering just fine but the weight externally offset. The difference with a bike / motorcycle is just how difficult it is to balance.
- ozim 9y agoIt is not timing it is balance of mass and conservation of energy. Car has totally different mass distribution. So energy conservation is also different.
- buvanshak 9y ago>If you lean left, front wheel will "do" countersteering itself (same as noted). I am not sure. If you lean left, then the handle bar ll slightly turn left automatically. In actual countersteering, it greatly helps only because it helps to quickly initiate a tilt in the required direction. For example, if you want to go to left, then turn the handle bar to the right, which causes the front wheel to slight start to offset in the right, which in turn causes the whole bike to tilt to left, and once it start to tilt to the left, then the normal process of turning is applied...
- ska 9y agoIt's always countersteering. Doesn't even matter if your hands are on the bars (really). When you lean to (your) left, the center of mass of you+bike goes left of the plane of the wheels, this causes the front wheel to rotate away (i.e. right) from the motion slightly which causes you to bank left and the front wheel comes around to meet it until you are in equilibrium again. Countersteering doesn't "help", it's just unavoidable. Being aware of it helps you have better control. At very low velocities the effect is so minor you probably can't notice (and steering angles are large).
- buvanshak 9y ago> When you lean to (your) left, the center of mass of you+bike goes left of the plane of the wheels, this causes the front wheel to rotate away This does not seem correct. Why does it cause the front wheel to rotate away (right) ? If you lean a stationary cycle to the left, the front wheel will turn left.
- jonsen 9y agoIf you lean your body to the left the bike reacts by leaning to the right. Your body can only move by pushing the bike in the opposite direction.
- buvanshak 9y agoThat is bullshit. If I just lean to the left, the bike does not "react" by leaning to the right. If I lean to the left without touching the handle bars, the cycle ll start turning to the left. With counter steering, it can be made much quicker and in a much responsive fashion.