4 ms·

16:55: "Use caution for the downtown area." Meaning, don't fly over downtown so that if your plane comes apart you won't kill large numbers of people below you

16:55: "Use caution for the downtown area." Meaning, don't fly over downtown so that if your plane comes apart you won't kill large numbers of people below you. Pretty intense stuff.

schoen 9y ago
I'm similarly impressed with the captain here, but I disagree with your interpretation of what the approach controller was saying in this case. Pilot: Southwest 1380, we'd like to turn - to start turning inbound. Approach: Southwest 1380, turn, just start turning southbound there. There's a Southwest 737 on a four-mile final. You'll be turning southbound. Start looking for the airport, it's off to your right and slightly behind you there, and altitude is your discretion. Use caution for the downtown area. Maintain, advise you maintain at or above 2200 per the MVA. I believe this is the point, 34 minutes into the flight, at which the pilot then turns southbound toward the airport, passing almost directly over downtown Philadelphia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417/1430Z/KLGA/KDAL https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417... https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitude_(MVA) https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitu... "The minimum vectoring altitude in each sector provides 1000 ft above the highest obstruction in non-mountainous areas and 2000 ft above the highest obstacle in designated mountainous areas. The MVA is the lowest altitude that meets obstacle clearance requirements in the airspace specified. " In this the MVA appeared to refer to the controller's instructions for the altitude required to pass 1000 feet above the tallest buildings in the downtown area. Again, the "caution" related to downtown was mentioned in between the controller's statement that the pilot could use her discretion for the altitude and the statement that he "advise[s]" her to "maintain at or above 2200 [feet] for the MVA" in that region. So in context, I believe the controller was just advising the pilot to attempt to maintain enough altitude to pass safely above the downtown buildings, rather than to avoid flying over the downtown area at all. Again, it appears that she did fly over the downtown area as part of her approach. At the time of its southbound turn, the plane was at an elevation of about 3300 feet and then it passed over downtown at an elevation near 2600 feet or so. [Edit: I saw another transcript that said "per the MVA" instead of "for the MVA", and I've corrected my transcript above. This makes me even more convinced that the "caution for the downtown area" refers to an established precaution, although other aircraft might not have a reason to come as close to the downtown buildings on a typical approach.]

16:55: "Use caution for the downtown area." Meaning, don't fly over downtown so that if your plane comes apart you won't kill large numbers of people below you. Pretty intense stuff.

schoen 9y ago

I'm similarly impressed with the captain here, but I disagree with your interpretation of what the approach controller was saying in this case. Pilot: Southwest 1380, we'd like to turn - to start turning inbound. Approach: Southwest 1380, turn, just start turning southbound there. There's a Southwest 737 on a four-mile final. You'll be turning southbound. Start looking for the airport, it's off to your right and slightly behind you there, and altitude is your discretion. Use caution for the downtown area. Maintain, advise you maintain at or above 2200 per the MVA. I believe this is the point, 34 minutes into the flight, at which the pilot then turns southbound toward the airport, passing almost directly over downtown Philadelphia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417/1430Z/KLGA/KDAL https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417... https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitude_(MVA) https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitu... "The minimum vectoring altitude in each sector provides 1000 ft above the highest obstruction in non-mountainous areas and 2000 ft above the highest obstacle in designated mountainous areas. The MVA is the lowest altitude that meets obstacle clearance requirements in the airspace specified. " In this the MVA appeared to refer to the controller's instructions for the altitude required to pass 1000 feet above the tallest buildings in the downtown area. Again, the "caution" related to downtown was mentioned in between the controller's statement that the pilot could use her discretion for the altitude and the statement that he "advise[s]" her to "maintain at or above 2200 [feet] for the MVA" in that region. So in context, I believe the controller was just advising the pilot to attempt to maintain enough altitude to pass safely above the downtown buildings, rather than to avoid flying over the downtown area at all. Again, it appears that she did fly over the downtown area as part of her approach. At the time of its southbound turn, the plane was at an elevation of about 3300 feet and then it passed over downtown at an elevation near 2600 feet or so. [Edit: I saw another transcript that said "per the MVA" instead of "for the MVA", and I've corrected my transcript above. This makes me even more convinced that the "caution for the downtown area" refers to an established precaution, although other aircraft might not have a reason to come as close to the downtown buildings on a typical approach.]